You Think You Have Time With Your Dad… Until You Don’t

Here is the word-for-word transcript of the Dead Dads Podcast episode featuring Tiff Daniels, organized by the chapters you provided.

Chapter 1: When the cancer prognosis became real

0:00 He had this shocked look on his face and I realized that he hadn't really asked those detailed questions where I think it was by now it was like end of November and there pretty much if you do chemo you probably got six months if you don't do chemo you probably got three and I was like okay sad

Chapter 2: Losing your dad and the purpose of the podcast

0:28 losing your dad sucks But talking about it doesn't have to.

0:30 We are not therapists professionally. We may like to think we are, but we are not. We give really good advice though. Mhm.

0:37 Just not medically or therapeutically. Although if you do feel better after it,

0:42 that's okay. You can still you can still listen to us,

0:44 but we will bill you for that. We're also not doctors.

0:48 That's true. We're definitely not doctors. I once was a doctor, but then was immediately removed from doctor status.

Chapter 3: Podcast disclaimer (we are definitely not doctors)

0:54 You just had a lab coat on. Like that's not a doctor. That That was the problem. Enjoy the next episode of Dead Dads.

Chapter 4: Meet today’s guest: Tiff Daniels

1:02 I want to introduce you because this is a person that I uh I know. You're bringing to the table.

1:07 I'm bringing to the table today. This is Tiff Daniels. Hey, Tiff. How you guys doing? Fantastic. Welcome to Dead Dads. Welcome to Dead Dads for having me.

1:15 Tiff. Um little bit of a spoiler alert because we did talk about this before.

Chapter 5: Why Tiff volunteered to share his story

1:19 Um, I know we're going to ask you a couple of questions, but the first question that I'm interested in is, um, for those of you that don't know, um,

1:26 we're relatively new to the podcast game. This is a concept that Roger and I came up with not that long ago, right,

1:32 as we're processing the grief of our own fathers and we were thinking like there just is not a lot of room in this space.

1:37 Not a lot of people who are talking about this. So, we did a post on LinkedIn thinking, I wonder who's out there that's interested. And

1:44 Tiff, you were the first. you were the first person you you uh almost uh it might have been but it didn't seem you almost didn't hesitate. You came up and

1:53 said and we looked for people that wanted to come and talk and you said yeah I'll do that. You came up you messaged me. I asked you if you were willing to chat. We chatted.

2:02 So I'm wondering firstly when you read that post what inspired you to come and do that because we don't

2:09 know each other that well. So you're you're basically offering yourself up to be you know somebody new for a podcast.

2:15 I'd like to know what was your inspiration.

Chapter 6: What Tiff learned from his father about being a dad

2:17 Um, well, it's it's funny because prior to this all starting, you talked about tears and getting emotional. Now, I almost feel like I might get emotional now, but I think it's because my father meant so much to me and I'm a father now, too. And I think about every day

2:33 about what I learned from him that I can pass on to my children or be a better person to be a good dad, that kind of thing.

2:41 So, I just saw it and I thought that just made sense to me to um to talk about my story, but I'm sure there's

2:48 other people out there that have had some similar story, shall we say. So,

2:52 well, we're really looking forward to learning more about your dad.

Chapter 7: Comfort shows and the podcasts that help unwind

2:56 But first, we want to learn more about you. Sure.

2:57 So, let me ask you a question. When you get home at a at the end of the day have had a stressful day,

3:03 what's something you like to watch or listen to that just calms you down? Um, well, I work from home.

3:10 Okay. So, I'm always home. More I'm home a lot. I mean, I go out for meetings and stuff like that. And it's funny you say

3:17 that because what calms me down if I'm at working home, I'm at home. My my wife's a teacher. She'll be off. I might be doing the laundry. When I'm folding the laundry, I'm listening to a podcast.

3:27 Love it.

3:27 So, I've just kind of gotten into that $5 bills before anything because it's really it's working out.

3:33 Yeah, exactly. So, that keeps me calm and relaxed and everything like that. But, uh um Yeah. Do you have favorites? Ones that you listen to a lot?

3:41 I'm sure you've heard it. Stuff you should know. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Every dad should listen to stuff you should know.

3:46 I just I' I don't know how I got into it a couple years ago and I'm just listen to it. I'm like, some of the topics are interesting. The two guys that run it are they do a good job. So, let's talk about your dad.

Chapter 8: Introducing George, Tiff’s father

3:55 Yeah. What was his name? Uh George. George. Yeah. And how long ago did he pass?

4:02 Three years ago. Oh. Uh, sorry, almost three years ago. It was uh uh February 2022. So yeah, that's almost three years.

4:09 So I'm wondering if you could start off by sharing, you know, maybe a little story about uh something that really captures his personality and and and who he was.

Chapter 9: George’s love of gardening and life at the cottage

4:20 Um well, I think George uh if I'm correct, uh in Greek means farmer.

4:27 So he though he wasn't a farmer, he loved to, you know, um he loved gardening, loved to have his, uh vegetable patch in the summertime. Um,

4:36 so that was very much who he was. And I I realized um when before coming here,

4:41 Scott was saying, "Bring some momentos if you want." I was looking for this photograph that actually was on That's not the photograph there, but another

4:49 one that was actually of him and um uh like Oshkosh overalls.

4:54 Oh, like the oldfashioned overall.

4:57 Exactly. So, he had a pair of those that he literally probably had since before I was born, but he was still wearing them until just, you know, the last year of

5:05 his life when he'd go work in the garden um in the summertimes. So, but it's a great photo of him really smiling and

5:13 happy and I think it was on the cover of the the pamphlet at his uh as funeral and everything like that.

5:19 Was he like that as far as you can remember? Like when you were a kid, was he always outside doing gardening stuff?

Chapter 10: Did Tiff inherit his dad’s green thumb?

5:23 Did that come to him a bit later? I think it a little bit later because he was probably really busy with work and family when he was younger, but as he got to retirement, that was a big thing

5:31 for him was the gardening. But I think he'd always had that that uh green thumb. Did you pick that up from him? No, not really.

5:39 Well, maybe a little bit cuz I used to be a landscaper and I love mowing my lawn and that part of it, but I hate pulling weeds and I don't don't give me a garden cuz I'm like that's I'd rather go to the grocery store.

5:48 Plus, nobody can have a garden in Vancouver.

5:51 It's so hard when your dad is good at something and like, "Oh, that must have passed along to you." No, not so much.

5:58 I don't I don't want to deal with gardens.

Chapter 11: George the salesman and family provider

6:00 So, what was your dad's job in the family? Like, what was his unofficial title? Uh, you know, what was his role? He he was old school money money maker,

6:09 bread winner, whatever you want to say it. Like I had a pretty traditional my parents were pretty traditional where even though my mom worked, she was a teacher,

6:18 my father was a salesman and an entrepreneur, but it was really about him going out there and and doing a good job to support the family. And my father

6:27 being in sales, I'm I I'm in sales as well. I always remember years ago my mom saying to me, "One one of the most important things of my job is this is my

6:36 mom saying this is making sure your father's happy because a good a happy salesman is a good salesman." And I'm like, "Yeah, you're right, mom. Like

6:43 it's about a frame of mind and a mindset. And if you're in a good frame of mind, you're a better salesperson and you're able to help people find those solutions." So,

Chapter 12: Lessons about mindset and positive thinking

6:51 did he, this is a presupposition, but a lot of uh determined sales people have like a mantra. They have like a key thing that they use over and over again.

7:00 I'm borrowing a page from Roger's dad here because I know he has an expression that he repeated over and over again which was what was it again? Supply and demand.

7:08 Oh yeah, supply and demand. He always just there was this thing like Roger, it's all about supply and demand. Supply and demand.

7:14 Did your dad have anything that the it's a two-part question which is did he have anything he said and is it the thing that kind of haunts you? Can you still

7:22 hear him say it? I I don't know if it's specifically about sales, but power of positive thinking. Yeah. Was was his his

7:28 thing. That's great. And um uh and I don't know if he said this. It was more of the I think it's an old um

7:37 maybe Ruddard Kipling poem uh if it's to be it's up to me or something. There's a saying in there. So it's just about you

7:44 know being self-accountable and being positive. That's my father was very much that type of person. So it's definitely rubbed off on me for sure. So, he's an

7:53 entrepreneur. He's a salesperson at heart. Yeah.

7:56 He's a gardener. He's a cultivator. He's a cultivator.

Chapter 13: How friends would describe George

7:59 Building this personality for him. Is there um a way that his friends would have described him? Like if you if we were to bring in anybody that knew him?

8:08 Probably different than you knew him. Yeah. How would they describe him? Pushy. Yeah. Great. Sounds like a true friend.

8:16 It's a true friend. And we'd like them to call in. My my father was very because of who he was just he was always involved. He was he was all he was he

8:25 was um involved in charities and he was in Quanis club and he was the president of a of a um cottages association that

8:34 we we were l I'm very grateful very lucky to have grown up to be able to go to a cottage or a cabin shall we call it. Is there an association for cottage?

8:42 Yeah in in where we were uh in Ontario where the cottage was. So, he became the president of that and he's just always

8:50 involved in the community and giving back, but because of who he is as well,

8:54 he's a bit bit of a go-getter. He'd be kind of in people's faces and like,

8:59 let's move this along, let's make this happen and all this stuff. So, he could be considered a bit pushy, but I think people would say that, but they mean it

9:06 in a positive positive light. Sounds like very like Napoleon Hill, Vinc Norman Vincent Peele, like positive thinking, like, you know.

Chapter 14: The friendships and community he built

9:15 Yep. Did he have lots of friends? This is a hard thing for some men as they get older to keep these friend groups up. Yeah.

9:21 But he was a kind of a guy who had lots of social kind of Yeah. Yeah. There was this funeral.

9:26 There was a lot of people that were luckily were still around cuz he lost you know, you know, you get older and you know, you lose a lot of you talk to

9:34 my dad like, "Oh, you know, so and so they just passed away. I'm sorry, dad."

9:37 And then so and so just passed away. It happens a lot as they're luckily he my father was 86, so he had a good long life.

9:44 Yeah. But um there was still a lot of people at his funeral as well that knew him very closely but also um not as

9:51 close but just knew him through business or through his volunteer work and were like I'm going to go pay respects.

9:58 So did you um find out anything at the funeral that you were surprised because again this is a guy you knew your whole life.

Chapter 15: Stories people shared after his funeral

10:05 This is and I'm this happened to me a little bit too but people would come up and tell me this story of my father and I think like 80 years almost I've known this guy. I've never heard this story before.

10:15 Was there any sort of like insight into his character that was a juggler? I had no idea.

10:21 Any character insight that got that's been shined on the light maybe at the funeral or afterwards that you learned about him?

10:26 Um, that's a really good question. I don't top my head, I don't think so, but I met people that he talked about over the years that I'd never met before. So,

10:36 I met them at the funeral. Oh, you're that person. Oh, you're that person. So that that was that was kind of cool to

10:42 put a a face to a name of of people that were influences to him or he was an influence on them.

10:49 It's a fascinating because their character continues after they pass, I always think. And so you're still I'm still learning about who my dad was. You

10:57 know, he died in 2021 and I'm still learning a little bit like, oh, he was actually a slightly different person and I'll meet a new person sometimes that knew him. When my dad died, it was

11:06 interesting because a lot of my friends came out of the woodwork to tell me just how much he meant to them. Like he was like a mentor to them.

11:13 Oh, right. Yeah. Although I would have had no idea. Like they they didn't necessarily have dads growing up and they didn't they didn't really have like a you know a formal mentor relationship,

11:22 but they all came up to me more like Yeah, he Anyways, it was it was really uh touch touching to hear that. So that's great. Yeah.

Chapter 16: When George was diagnosed with cancer

11:29 How did he go? So it was 2022. So yes, post we're sort of out of the co era.

11:35 Yeah. Yeah. So is he in this neighborhood? You said mention I grew up I'm I'm from Ontario originally. I've been out here 25 years though. Okay.

11:42 Um and they he was uh in Ontario well for for his final days but what for many many years of course

11:50 and um yeah it was I think it was about the summer of 2021. My brother lives out and

11:58 lives close by to where my parents lived and and I would see my parents every summer because we'd fly back and go

12:06 spend time with them at the cottage and and all this stuff. And uh he just seemed getting older, but I'm like,

12:13 "Okay, well, you are 85 and all this stuff, but he seemed just a bit thinner." He was he was a runner.

12:18 Um he was always very um conscious about about eating well and everything like that. So, he was always more of on a thin side. But you see the notice cuz you're going away and coming back.

12:28 Yeah. So I noticed and my brother said something. He said, "Dad, you know, he just seems a bit, you know, thinner."

Chapter 17: Realizing he hadn’t asked the hard medical questions

12:33 I'm like, "Okay, okay." And then in the fall of 21, he started seeing some doctors and they're like, "Oh, uh,

12:42 you've got cancer." Mhm.

12:43 And then in the fall, so I started going out back and forth a little bit more.

12:48 And it was interesting because I think I I don't know if if it happens with a lot of

12:55 with people when when they get this news from a doctor if they they just gloss over it or not. But I talk to them and I'm like, "So, Dad, have you asked the

13:04 question like what what are what are exactly are the routines you got to go through? What are what are the the um the the things you can do to either kill it or get over it or whatever, chemo,

13:16 chemo, pills, this whatever it is." Oh, well, blah blah blah. And I'm like,

13:19 "But you haven't asked detailed questions. You're giving me just vague answers." Yeah. So I ended up flying back a number of times and going with my

Chapter 18: Going to doctor appointments with his dad

13:26 dad to the doctor's appointments and and and literally was in one of them and and asked the question, so if he

13:35 does this, how long what's the probability of success in life? If he does this, what's the probability?

13:40 What's this? And we came out of there with definitive answers. And he had this shocked look on his face. And I realized that he hadn't really asked those

13:48 detailed questions where I think it was by now it was like end of November and there pretty much if you do chemo

Chapter 19: The prognosis: chemo or a shorter timeline

13:57 you probably got six months. If you don't do chemo you probably got three.

14:01 And I was like okay well dad this is this is where we are. And then of course like if you do chemo and you get six

14:08 months but I mean that's the the there's that 1 to 3% chance you might survive and it's not a fun 6 months

14:16 difficult. Yeah. Yeah. So he ended up going okay well I'm going to do chemo.

Chapter 20: Wanting one more summer at the family cottage

14:20 I'd like to spend one more summer at the cottage which is kind of our family home shall we say cuz my parents got it back in the late sorry mid60s. Wow.

14:30 So I grew up lucky enough to go there as a kid. my parents loved it there. They kind of retired to there uh stuff like that. And they've got lots of friends in

14:38 the community there as well. But um when uh when he was told this, he's like,

14:44 "Okay, I'm going to do chemo." And we're like, "Okay, great. Let's do that." And and then that I got to fly back to to

14:51 back home, see my family, but I'll be back out for Christmas. We'll spend Christmas together. We'll bring the whole family out. And then at about two weeks later or after two or three weeks

Chapter 21: Choosing to stop chemotherapy

15:00 into the chemo, he's just like, I can't do this. This is like just destroying me, right?

15:05 And he's like, I realize that this is this is it. So, you know, I don't know how long I'm going to survive and all this stuff, but I'm not going to

15:13 do chemo and I'm just going to spend my final days doing the mo most I can. And so, I just flew back and forth, back and forth to see him as much as possible.

Chapter 22: Supporting a parent after a terminal diagnosis

15:22 You said something which actually I think is more common which is um the scenario where the person that's dying

15:30 has been presented with this information. Yeah. And then has to inform their children. Yeah.

15:35 And doesn't have enough information and the children are incredibly frustrated. Yeah.

15:39 Because um it's pure, it's clean, you've been given a diagnosis. Like why can't you remember this information? And

15:46 I think it's very common. And then I think to myself, imagine being like,

15:50 again, you mentioned this at their age, everybody they know is getting sick and dying. And so they're hearing the prognosis that they know.

15:59 Yeah.

15:59 Of their friends have had, right? And so and they're also, you know, runners and they have a healthy lifestyle and it's like it's not me and I'll be fine. And Right.

16:08 But also not, you know, not wanting to worry you and the family and grandkids.

Chapter 23: Recording doctor visits and navigating information

16:13 Y I used to get them to record it. That's what I used to do because I was able their doctor's visits. I would get them to just turn on their phone and get them to just leave it in the middle and say,

16:22 you know, Yes. make sure that the doctor knows.

16:24 Imagine my dad knowing how to turn on his phone. I know.

16:27 And there was some comedy because it's not just to call people. Is that what a phone is for? You call people. Yeah. Exactly.

16:32 Or if you get stuck in your car and you need to call uh you know,

16:35 we could do a whole segment on FaceTiming your parents.

16:37 Yeah. Exactly. But it was incredibly it was a gift because I think the pressure to deal with the realization of of the prognosis and also

16:46 to kind of capture the scientific information seems like a bit difficult and I'm I'm sure your dad did as best he could but also great that you were able

16:54 to come out there and and advocate for him. Yeah.

16:56 So when Gohead when he when he told you that Yeah. What was your reaction?

Chapter 24: The moment Tiff first heard about the diagnosis

17:03 Uh, I think my first reaction is like,

17:05 okay, that makes sense as to why he's even thinner than he normally is, right? Um, were you alone?

17:13 But when he told you, are you wondering when he told you that he was going to stop chemo?

17:17 Cuz he story stopping chemo or when he first found out he had cancer. When he first found out he had cancer. Yeah. Yeah.

17:22 I can't remember exactly where I was or how he he probably told me on the phone because Yeah. I was out here. Um

17:31 I I think my first reaction was okay what are we going to do like what act and that's kind of who he is too like

17:39 okay you've got a problem let's find a solution you got a problem how are we going to work through this got a problem who's going to help you what do you have to do to help yourself who's going to

17:48 provide support stuff like that what do we know what do we not know exactly so I think that was what was going through my mind and it was just okay I've got a family with young kids

17:58 uh I have responsibilities here. How do I make sure I can go see him? Um, and work with my brother who's in the same

18:05 community, but just also make sure and then support mom as well. So, it's just all those different things about, well, what do I do and how do we,

18:13 you know, get involved and you get into kind of logistics mode while also logistic robotic in a way. Yeah. But also shocked, I'm assuming.

18:22 Yeah. Yeah. because it's your dad and you also have to be there for your family and there for your mom and it's it's a lot. Yeah.

Chapter 25: Telling his children their grandfather had cancer

18:30 What did you tell your kids or did you tell your kids?

18:34 Um cuz they would have been this is three or four years ago. So doing the math. Yeah. Three years ago. So you know they're in their just teens, right?

18:42 Yeah. Yeah. So So my my daughter would have been nine and my son probably about 11 at the time. Um I think we told him

18:50 that that pop pop as they called him um had cancer and he's not well and uh but

18:59 you know at that age 911 they're like okay someone's sick so when are they going to get better right and I don't think they realized it until

19:07 pretty much when it happened because even though we went because it was February when he passed so we were there for Christmas so he was still we spent

19:15 time with him and everything like that and And um but I think they realized that they may or may not see him again,

19:22 but then they came out to see him in his final days.

19:25 So I only ask cuz I think it's you know you're going to be around your kids and all this stuff's going to happen and when do you start to inform them? How do you keep

19:33 them engaged? How do you give them time I guess is the question that I'm wondering.

Chapter 26: George’s final days in hospice

19:36 And in those final days, uh where where was he? Who was around? What was the what was that like? Oh, his final day.

19:45 He was in hospice in Callingwood,

19:47 Ontario. And uh so we were able luckily able to get him into that one into one.

19:54 Um so he said, "I'm I'm going to stop chemo." That was about um middle of December,

19:59 first week of December. He said, "I'm stopping chemo."

20:02 Right. Okay. And uh and then we'd already planned to come out for Christmas to see him and my mom and my

20:08 brother and and then uh we were there for like uh 10 days or something like that and we spent every day together and

20:17 and uh and then everyone went home and then I think it was probably uh early

20:25 January when then he was able to get a bed at the hospice and he was still moving fine like right up to his last

Chapter 27: Saying goodbye and the night he passed

20:32 days his his brain was totally amazing and his wits about him and everything, it was just his body shutting down. Um,

20:39 yeah, but we were we were all there in in the room the day like a few hours

20:45 before he passed and then uh Sorry. No, that's right.

20:52 And just what Mhm.

20:57 And then that day water you want.

20:59 Thank you. And then and then we were there and we saw him for a number of days in a row.

21:06 And then he just like he could just see he he was like, "I'm ready to go. I'm ready to go." He'd say that over, you know, number of times. We'd always talk about stories, everything like that.

21:15 And then there was that day where he just said to the nurses, I think,

21:20 "Today's the day now." And uh I think he was he was so weak and everything like that. and he didn't have get maid. Uh

21:28 but he they basically the the nurse is like, you know, he doesn't need maid. We can just give him some extra morphine tonight and he won't wake up. Right.

21:36 And so we we all knew that we're saying goodbye to him right then and there. And we went back to the house where my mom

21:43 lives, where I used to live, and uh and just had dinner. And then we got a phone call about 9:30 that night from the hospice to say he passed.

21:52 Yeah.

21:54 Yeah. It's such a weird time to go back to the home. Yeah. Afterwards, I found that like I don't know what your experience was like. Like you go into that house and it's different. Yeah.

Chapter 28: Returning home after a parent dies

22:03 And then you're just like, well, what what is the thing? What are we supposed to do? What's the Yeah.

22:08 What's the What activity did you guys protocol?

22:10 Yeah. Did you guys sit? Did you share stories? What did you do when you got home?

22:14 Yeah, we did. We share stories, but we got dinner ready and it's on the the my son's birthday day. Oh, yeah.

22:22 Wow. So his his dad died on his sister's birthday. So So we're basically going back to have birthday dinner for my son and but we knew it was all happening,

22:32 but we were kind of hoping even though they gave him the extra morphine, we were thinking, could it maybe happen at 12:01? Could you just pause it?

22:39 Could you pause it? And literally my wife looked at me and I said, "Well, you know, maybe that that's what might happen, but it might not." And then when we got the call about 9:30, I think my

22:48 kids had maybe gone to bed by then anyway. But we got the call and like,

22:51 "Oh, well, it is actually on his birthday, so whatever."

22:54 Eastern. I know. I was doing the Yeah. Yeah.

22:58 So then you're tasked with you're in the house and you're obviously in Ontario.

23:02 Did you Were you the one who had to start to do the paperwork? Was there other people?

Chapter 29: The overwhelming paperwork after their loss

23:07 Cuz it's such a weird process, which is like, okay, that's over and then there's this work, right, that pops up? Yeah. No, I I did most of that cuz one,

23:14 I think my mom was a bit I mean, she was she was helpful, but I took it on. I no disrespect to my brother, but it's more my forte to deal with paperwork and

23:22 stuff like that than his. So, I was the one driving a lot of that to to happen.

23:28 But yeah, you don't realize all the different things you got to do and right and you got to communicate with and the lawyers and the and the funeral home and and the government and all this stuff.

23:38 Yeah. And in in the moment when it happened,

23:41 you you know, you've got all this family around you and your mom.

23:44 Yeah. It sounds like you're the you job in the family is you you got you got your together and glued. Yeah. I'm

23:52 curious. Did you feel this pressure to hold it all together?

23:58 Um yeah, I I believe I did. Yeah, I I can't deny that. Um I can be very stoical. So, I just thought, you know,

24:05 it's just it is what it is. And we But but you know, with with death, you you're you're going to grieve and it's going to hit you at weird times and Well, we don't know. Well, yeah. Sorry.

Chapter 30: The emotional pressure to hold everything together

24:16 You don't know. But yeah, you just deal with it. Yeah. I think that's it. You just kind of deal with it, right?

24:22 Yeah. I'm interested in this because I think not to put your situation in mind,

24:26 the processing and the grief kinds to put on a shelf a little bit while you get into the paperwork and there is a certain amount of workload that you can

24:34 kind of distract yourself with where you're eliminating all these things and closing up all these loose.

24:39 Was there checking things off? That one's done.

24:43 Got the clipboard out, right? Yeah, this is all good.

24:46 What's the status on the on the cell phone bill? Yeah. Have we cleared that? Yeah, exactly.

24:50 Yeah. Was there a process or was there a time when you you started to realize that that checklist was starting to become shorter? You're starting to

24:58 think, okay, I'm actually getting through this checklist and now this the the rest of time is starting to stretch out and were you aware of any difference in yourself as that started to happen?

Chapter 31: Why settling an estate can take years

25:10 Um, well, I think the check I think initially you think that checklist is something you're going to check off in a few weeks. Then you realize, oh my god,

25:18 this is like a one to to threeyear process when someone passes between all the all the stuff that happens. Just proving that they're actually dead.

25:26 Yeah. Is just a lot of work.

25:28 Exactly. Certificate of death. How many copies do I have? And was I mailing out to people and photocopying and send it

25:35 to other people and and and organizations and each organization has a different rule for submitting it and what like

25:43 there should be a anyway there should be a law where it's just all the same.

25:47 I know. Yeah. So he's in the jelly of the month club. Yeah. We're going to need to see a certificate of death. Yeah. Exactly.

25:52 We're going to keep sending him the jellies unless Yeah.

25:55 There was some subscription things and I was like, "Okay, I'm you're on the phone like, "Sorry, my father's passed away.

26:00 He does not need this anymore. Can you please cancel?" Oh, well, I'm not sure yet. Can you give me a Why would I make this up? He's

26:09 not watching Netflix anymore. Exactly. I can promise you that. Yeah. And going through his computer.

Chapter 32: Shutting down accounts and managing digital life

26:14 Like my mom would like she never touched computers. Like literally the only time she was on a computer when my father said, "Ruth, come over here. I need you

26:22 to type something up because I'm doing this and can you just at least type it a little bit and and then I'll send it.

26:27 And so she didn't touch a computer. So all of a sudden I had to get in control of his computer because he was, you know, he was on Facebook and he had all these different things. So it's like,

26:36 well, how do you shut this down and what do I do about this? And and so that was and and again, like again, no strict my brother, but he my brother's not even super techsavvy.

26:46 He'll probably listen, so don't be a jerk. But anyway, but but he'll admit he'll agree.

26:53 He'll be a guest next week. He's right there. Yeah. he's here today.

Chapter 33: Caring for family after a loss

27:00 Anyway, so so there's just doing that stuff, but we know the whole process takes takes a while. But I think to

27:07 then the the besides the checking things off and doing the things you've got to do and not realizing how much stuff there is to do, it then was okay, how do I make sure that my children are okay.

27:20 Uh my wife who's become very fond of my father is okay, but more importantly my mom, how's my mom doing?

27:27 And how was she doing? and uh she's she's pretty strong, but she had a you know, strong on the outside and falling

27:35 apart on the inside at some level. But uh I think she I think like they were,

27:42 you know, it's it's always I always look back and I think there was a number of times over my life where I'm like, God,

27:48 if I can have a marriage and a partnership like my parents had, right,

27:52 I'd be doing pretty well. and cuz they were a good partnership and a loving couple and uh just a great a great couple.

Chapter 34: Supporting a grieving mother

28:01 Anyway, so I was like, "Okay, I got to make sure my mom's okay." And I'm and she was very stoic about too. She's like, "Okay, well, I got to keep moving on." But then she as the days went by,

28:10 she's like, "I don't know if I can." She started getting very like um con concerned with herself whether or not

28:18 she can survive without her partner in crime. Mhm.

28:21 Like the day-to-day tasks are started to she it's the emotional I've now lost my part my my lover, my best friend, my

28:29 husband. Like I've lost that person who keeps me going and is part of everything I've done.

28:35 They're very both very social and and and uh you know with a lot of friends and stuff and now they're her partner is not there. So

28:44 luckily my mom was in a in Callingwood where she grew up originally and then they moved to Toronto and I grew up in

28:51 Toronto and then they moved back to Collingwood, Ontario uh later in life and she retired there but she still had all these old friends from way back when

28:59 or who had moved there them themselves later in life. So she had a a good network but I'm like mom you've got all these friends here and you got all these

29:07 she's like yeah but they're not my best friend. Yeah. So,

29:12 and it's hard to hear that from your mother. I I I don't know what your relationship was like with your mom, but that is like the ultimate level of

29:20 vulnerability. To hear that from your parents in that moment is just I I found it heartbreaking when I I felt I heard something similar coming from my

29:28 mom as well. It's just you know it's coming. You you you see it. Yeah.

29:32 You know, you see it coming, but when it actually happens, you're just like, whoa. Yeah. Yeah.

Chapter 35: Becoming the new family patriarch

29:36 But do you do you become your dad in a certain way?

29:41 Like she she has needs of certain things, right? Like and who's she going to ask and you're obviously no shade against your brother

29:50 cuz that's but it's sounds like it's going to be you. And so there's this scenario where you're like suddenly not only is my dad not here that I have to deal with, but also I am him,

29:59 right?

Chapter 36: The feeling of suddenly being “the roof”

30:00 Is that a scenario or funny enough you say I am him. Like one of the feelings is when my dad passed was like, "Okay, I'm the oldest male in my family,

30:09 right? I am now my dad." Wow. And my own uh um uh like belief of like,

30:19 "Oh my god, I'm suddenly like, wait a second, how old am I? Oh my god, okay,

30:23 my dad died at 86. Oh, that's like 30 years from now for me, or at the time was 33. I'm like, "Oh, wow. I'm closer to death than I am birth." Okay,

30:35 this is uh this is interesting. Now, put down the cheeseburger. Somebody said it to me and I don't know,

30:41 this is a visual that I always get is like until your until your dad dies and there's a roof on your house. Yeah.

30:48 And then suddenly there's no roof and the rain just lands directly on your head and you're like, "Oh, so I'm the one now. I'm the roof." Suddenly I'm shielding.

30:55 Great analogy. I love that. And the feeling of pressure is is considerable. I think we're starting to think,

31:03 geez, what do I need to do to be a am I ready for that level of of responsibility? So I did that hit you or is that just hitting you now?

31:10 Oh, no. That hit me very soon after it was passed like right away pretty much.

31:14 I was like, "Oh, wow. That's now I'm I'm my dad. I'm the oldest guy. I'm now Yeah. Got be a rock and be whatever."

31:22 And And where where are you at with that now?

31:26 Um, yeah, I don't think I'm as emotional as I was when I first kind of h had that realization. Um,

Chapter 37: Living up to a father’s legacy

31:35 I think what's happened over the last,

31:37 coming to terms with my father's passing, it's to me people when someone I found when when he passed,

31:45 people like, "Oh, well, what do you what do you think about all the memories and you think about all the stuff in the past and tell me some stories?" And I'm

31:52 like, I I'm I'm not the best storyteller, per se, or I don't think I am, but I be like, it's not about the stories I had with him. It's about who

Chapter 38: Becoming the person your father raised you to be

32:00 he helped me become in my head, in my heart. And and and I think every day I try to be a good person because I think

32:09 my father my father was not perfect by any means, but he had uh in general, he was a good good person. And so I'm

32:18 thinking, okay, what are all the things he's taught me? And so that's where I'm at now. It's like, let just keep living.

32:25 His memory is now in me, in my mind, in my heart, and be the person I could be that he probably was trying to instill in me when I was 8, 10, 12, 18, 27, 32,

32:37 you know, etc. Right.

32:39 Is there a thing that you do or have done recently that you're surprised that you actually went, "Oh, this is his thing that I got from him." So, it

32:46 sounds like there are some obvious things that you can you can draw a line to, but I'm sometimes there's these surprises. You're like, you've inherited

32:53 a trait or a characteristic or even a way of thinking that has come to light just recently or after he passed.

Chapter 39: The strange ways we inherit traits from our dads

33:01 Oh, I I definitely could say there is. I I can't think of like top of my head now, but 100%. There's like you'll do something like, "Oh my god, that's what my dad would do. That's that's what my

33:09 dad would say." Or, "Oh, that's the weirdest.

33:12 Oh, that's the weirdest." My dad would have said that. Oh my god, I'm turning into my father. And then your wife and then your wife calls it out and is like you're sounding like your dad. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

33:20 He I never like your laugh is a natural thing that is that is in you, right?

33:24 It's supposed to come from you and and a creation of everything. And up until my father passed away, I laughed one way and then after he passed away, I I was

33:33 somebody told me this thing and I went which is which is his weird chuckle which never was my laugh before and I'm

33:40 you know I was turning around like where is he?

33:43 Where did that come from? Yeah. This laugh came out of nowhere. Yeah. And my sister, she was like, I she was like,

33:49 what was that? And I was, oh, it was it was the weirdest feeling of just being inhabited, right? And this laugh still exists. I can't get rid of it. I can't shake it.

33:58 He's in you. He's in. Yeah. Exactly. It's a spooky thing. Yeah.

34:01 So, yeah. So, I glad you don't have that paranormal scenario. No.

34:06 No. You said something too which I thought was interesting which is that there's a servicing of other people's um

34:13 expectations. They come up to you and they want stories about your dad or they want to know things, right?

34:18 How do you handle that when someone comes up to you and says like, oh, you know, I'm sorry your dad died and then they're performatively kind of talking to you

34:26 about your grief. Is that a familiarity to you? And how do you handle it? Um when you just mentioned your story about

Chapter 40: Dreams about parents after they pass

34:33 you know thinking your father was behind you with your laugh. Um the one thing that's happened to me is more very vivid

34:41 dreams where your my father and now my mother cuz she passed as well a couple years ago is that they'll come into my

34:48 dreams or they'll be in a dream and I will literally wake up thinking that they're in the room. Like it's it's not

34:55 like a d like it's like they inserted themselves into a dream like from above or from wherever they are. Right. Right.

35:02 Um so I have those every once in a while and I wake up really emotional like oh my god I miss my father so much or my mother and but it's like cuz the dream

35:09 is just not that normal weird dream where people just happen to be in a room right this is where they talk to you and you're like but dad you're dead. Oh it's

35:18 okay I came back today to talk to you about something. Oh do you remember when this happened or whatever. And it's one of those sort of conversations. I have those.

35:26 I wish I had those.

35:28 Have you ever you've never had your dad ever had a dream before?

35:30 In fact, when when he passed, one of the things I asked him or I said to him was,

35:34 you know, hey, you don't know where you're going. I don't know where you're going, but I just hope that at some point you come and visit me in whatever form.

35:42 And I always think about like, could it come in a dream or could it be something? So, it's interesting you say that. I like, oh, that'd be that'd be awesome. It hasn't happened yet. It is awesome,

35:50 but it's very emotional. You wake up from the dream, you go, "God, that's a dream. Damn it, I wish that was not a dream. I want him to be here now to continue the conversation." Cuz usually

35:58 it's a it's a real life conversation or a dream conversation you're having. It feels so real. There's no there's no Yeah.

36:06 And then and then suddenly it it ends and you're like, "But but I had more questions. I wanted to talk about something else or whatever." And it's Did you see the Blue Jays? You know.

36:14 Well, exactly. He would have loved to have seen the Blue Jays.

36:18 He was a huge fan. He would have loved to been there for that. Yeah. Mine. Mine too.

36:21 Yeah. U So, you know, we're we're now at the stage of of of grief. Where do you think you're at with it all right now?

Chapter 41: Where Tiff is in his grief today

36:29 And and how do you think you're doing with it? Because it's not there's no rule book. Yeah.

36:34 Um what you know, what what do you think is is is working for you? What is is there anything missing? Like where where do

36:42 you think you're at right now? cuz what I heard from you say which I think is very admirable. It's about checking in on my mom and she's passed away now.

36:49 It's about checking in on my wife. It's about making sure my kids are okay. It's about There are a lot of people with whom we care and are concerned with keeping the roof over their heads.

36:58 Um the roof is not over your head. How do you how are you managing with that?

Chapter 42: Helping his kids remember their grandfather

37:04 Like is that do you let that hit you or do you kind of keep that in in a scenario? What's the what's the real life feeling for it? Well, I think the

37:12 real life thing is is making sure that my children still know about their popup, right? Because there was only a short period of time that they had with

37:21 them and but I know and obviously him being out east and we're out west. So when they spent time together, it was only for a few weeks every year, but it

37:29 was pretty condensed and they would go and do stuff and all that. So I just want to make sure that they've got photos and we talk about them and and and that those types of things. So to me

37:38 that's really important so that they can as they grow they still remember when they were six and nine before he passed and and all that stuff.

37:47 Do you have a special thing that you do to keep him alive? Like do you have a commemorative like you mentioned Yeah.

37:52 his birthday maybe or something. Is there is there a date of the calendar that kind of gets reserved for him? No.

38:01 So there's not a special date. No. No.

38:03 It's just but it's to keep him alive I think in the memory. It's keep them alive and I do reference them and and my children do have photos of them with my father and

38:12 with my mother um like in their rooms and they're there so they see them and I'm actually really sometimes they're surprised because you know kids rooms

38:20 can be the disaster zones and things can go missing and then but seems that those photos don't go missing they're always there and they've always made sure so

38:29 and when I bring them bring up my my my father and mother and and they still have fond on memories and they they talk

38:37 about things like my daughter sometimes gets a little bit emotional like I I miss nanny and pop um but uh I think that's to me is the

38:45 big thing is making sure that they're thinking about them. You brought some photo photos with you.

Chapter 43: Photos and memories from childhood

38:50 I I would love to uh learn more about them.

38:52 Yeah. So this is actually a photo of me and my brothers as little kids. And even though it's not my father, the reason it's important is because we're sitting

39:00 in an old wooden boat on Lake Aays in Ontario where the cottage is. So, which one are you?

39:07 So, I'm the super blonde one in the red like pajamas. I like this outfit.

39:13 I like this outfit. I mean, this is like this is a good look for 1974 or five probably. Beautiful.

39:20 And then my younger brother's in the middle and my older brother's the top. He passed away a number of years ago.

39:25 So, so just three and I think so it's it's about seeing my brothers, but it it reminds me of my mom and dad because of

39:33 uh being lucky enough and grateful enough to be able to go to a a summer cottage and spend time together as a family and friends and everything.

39:43 Six and a half, two and four, right?

Chapter 44: Growing up at the family cottage

39:45 And you're no stranger to grief. You're mentioning several things. Your mom's passed away. Your older brother's passed away.

39:52 Yeah. So, so my mom passed away two years ago. Yeah.

39:55 Uh or almost two years ago. And then my brother, a few years after your dad,

39:59 like, sorry, one year after years after your dad. Yeah.

40:02 And my older brother passed away in I think it was 2003.

40:07 So Oh, so yeah. So quite a few years back. Difficult situation. Yeah. Parents help. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that was that was hard.

40:15 You have grief in your life. You have had some familiarity with it. This is not your first experience, right? No. Um, and then the other photo,

40:23 this is my father. I can't remember. He um, like I told you, he was always volunteering, getting involved. He actually went to Ottawa and got uh,

40:32 caring caring Canadian award. Wow. Is that what the medals are for? Yeah. Oh, wow.

40:38 So, so he got medals as being a caring Canadian and he got I think the the governor general at the time, I think his last name was Johnson. I can't remember his first name.

40:47 Did you know all the governor generals?

40:49 You got it right. It was Johnson Johnson and he's the one that gave him the award and and uh and all this stuff. And I think it was one of those things. It's funny cuz I don't know if he kind of was

40:58 like nominated himself but then needed somebody else to officially nominate him.

41:04 But uh you know he was I was proud of him and and I didn't go. My brother went with my mom to the ceremony. Um I'm trying to think it was what year it was?

41:14 It was about Is there date on that? No. Doesn't look like it. Still the queen.

41:19 Yeah, it was I think it was about over 10 years ago. Okay. When that happened. Wow. And uh Yeah. Looks like a happy guy.

41:26 Does looks like a salesperson. Yes. Yeah. Well, he sold himself into these awards. He did. I think he pretty much did.

41:33 That's not your average salesperson. No, I think he did. I think he Yes. Hearing Canadian. Yes.

Chapter 45: Advice for men dealing with grief

41:41 Yeah. Um so I'm curious, what's something, you know, you've had all this experience with grief. What's something

41:48 that you think men in particular should know about grief that you think not enough of them piece of advice do? Yeah.

41:55 Uh well, the the piece of the grief part is you're right, you just don't know how you're

42:03 going to feel. Um actually a piece of advice I got from a female family friend was and it wasn't after my when my

42:12 brother passed uh almost over 20 years ago or almost uh was more from my father because I think her f her mother had

Chapter 46: How grief changes over time

42:20 passed a number of years before is that um you know you never you never really get over it. You always grieve. It's

42:27 just the the time frame of that grief gets shorter and shorter. Like when someone first passes, you could be a

42:33 mess for days or weeks or hours, but over time, you know, you might just have

42:40 that 30-second bit of like, oh my god, I really miss my dad. And you get all emotional and then 29 seconds later, you

42:48 break you you get past it. So, it's more that that is the one thing that I kind of learned and and it's true like over time you still remember them, you still

42:56 grieve, but you don't get in that emotional state for an extended period of time, right? I think that was the one thing that I'

Chapter 47: The practical reality of loss and funerals

43:03 I've learned. But then all the stuff you got to do to deal with someone's passing, oh my god, no one teaches you

43:09 that. That's like what the heck. It was interestingly my dad died just before Christmas and so we you know we had this

43:17 big gap of time to do and we started making a checklist and but anyways we eventually got to the funeral home and and the guy at the funeral home said uh oh

43:26 here's a binder and he gave us a binder of it was a checklist essentially but and also everything we were supposed to do and I said why they should give it to you in the hospital

43:34 right like cuz you're going to get it you're going to get into it right away right it's one of the things you just immediately start doing but It's, you

43:42 know, I thought it was fascinating. It was the funeral home that has that like they know and they're so organized and they're like, "Well, what?" Yeah. Why

43:50 didn't someone tell me this beforehand that you get to the funeral home and they're like, "Oh, no. This is what you need to do." Yeah. Was it was he buried or cremated? He was buried.

43:58 Yeah. Yeah. And and in Ontario? Yes. Yeah. What was that process like?

Chapter 48: Burial, traditions, and saying goodbye

44:03 So, he'd pre-organized because my brother passed in 2003. He'd already bought a plot. So my brother was there and then he bought a plot for for

44:11 himself and my mom and actually for me and my other brother. So there's actually like five together. Whoa. And my wife's like,

44:19 "Wait, he bought all of those in advance?" Yes. They give you a deal.

44:23 Was it a good Yeah, it was probably Oh, I think so. Cuz I think I I think I saw how much it cost and Well, that was back then and I think it would probably five times as much today.

44:33 It's real estate, you know. It is real estate. That's a much more what I think of as like a traditional scenario because a lot of your grieving

44:40 I think sometimes is influenced by movies up until the point it happens you're all you've seen probably is maybe again you've been you've either heard from

44:48 somebody or a lot of it I thought about I realized I was just borrowing from Hollywood films and Guns and Roses music video.

44:55 Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But no, we're all there and you're standing there over the casket and there's a hole in the ground and there and they did lay it down and

45:02 we put roses on top of the casket and you're right. So it wasn't it was in April. So it was like 2 months later after his passing that he actually got

45:11 buried buried and then we all went out as a family and then you know my my older brother was right beside him and

45:18 then and then because it's from the town my mom grew up there's all these relatives that are in the same um so they all came

45:26 they all came you know spirit yes they were all standing on your burial yes exactly exactly

45:33 that does sound a lot like a Hollywood film with the red roses dropping Yes, we did. Yeah, we put roses on his casket before it went down into the whole into the ground.

45:42 Interesting. Hey.

45:43 Yeah. We we didn't get we didn't get to experience them.

45:46 Yeah, but there's not tons of people and I don't think everyone was fully wearing black.

45:50 Like it was some small nuances.

45:53 Yes, no black veils. Um but there was line of limousines.

45:58 No, there's not a lot of li I don't think there was a single limousine. No.

46:02 And we we pulled up in cars and I think we drove on other people's graves like you know. Oh really?

46:07 Well I don't know. It's just kind of like there's I can see what you're blocking this out. You're like where do we park here?

46:15 There's all these stones everywhere. Where do we go? What am I parked on?

46:20 So Tiff, you've uh you've been so generous with your time and and sharing so many amazing stories. Uh, we wanted to ask you a few kind of, you know,

46:27 rapid fire type questions, which is odd doing rapid fire when talking about talking about Yeah.

Chapter 49: Rapid-fire questions about George

46:34 Um, curious, uh, you know, what do you miss most about your dad?

Chapter 50: What Tiff misses most about his dad

46:38 He was just such a strong good person. I just I I actually probably the thing I miss the most is not being able to spend more like I I missed the fact that I

46:47 didn't spend more time with him in his final days cuz I lived out here and he lived 3,000 miles away,

46:51 right? So, I think that's what I miss the most. Like, I was thinking before you coming here that,

46:58 you know, you you get into our age and you're probably financially in a better position than you were 20 years ago.

47:03 Well, hopefully you are, right? And there was a point in my last few years of my dad's life where he was like he said that he one of his lifetime goals would go to the Galapagos.

47:13 And so, I remember him telling me this like 20 years ago. Yeah.

47:17 And I was like, and then about a number of years ago, I'm like, geez, I'm in a position now. I could financially take my dad to the Clapos. But now he's like,

47:25 but when I got to that position, it was like, oh, he's too old now. He's too frail and he doesn't want to do that. He doesn't even want to go to the States because of healthare costs and whatifs,

47:35 right?

47:35 Right. So, I was kind of like, h, so that's not going to happen. That's I'm really bummed out. I couldn't make that happen. I wanted to make that happen for my dad.

47:43 So, spending time. Just spending just spending time. Yeah. Yeah.

47:46 Is there one thing you wish you said to him before he died?

Chapter 51: Things he was grateful to say before his father died

47:51 No, because I think I said a lot of it over the years. I'd always like birthday cards and Christmas and just I would write my dad say, "Dad, I'm thank you

47:59 very much. Thank you for being the person you are because you've helped me, I think, be a pretty good person."

48:06 Sorry, that sounds I'm tooting my own horn here, but I think it's just he's just helped me be who I am today, which

48:13 I think is a positive thing. So, I would thank him for that. Yeah.

Chapter 52: The one thing that used to drive him crazy about his dad

48:17 Is there something that he did that bothered you? And I don't mean like huge. I just mean like my dad used to just constantly have this terrible

48:25 expression. He would say, uh, a job worth doing is worth doing well. And he would do it at the worst times and it would just like I'd be sweeping and he

48:33 would do that. And I'm kind of fascinated by there are sometimes these things, right, that that are there that live with you forever. Yeah. Um,

48:44 There would be times where he was just too damn serious in life where he's like, "We got to get this stuff done." And be like, "Dad, have a sense,

48:51 excuse my language, have a sense of humor. Come on, let's just It's okay.

48:55 Chill out. Doesn't have to be done. We can do that." Like, just it's okay. Enjoy. I didn't see he was

49:02 very serious. He had a good sense of humor, but he didn't laugh as much as I'd like to have seen him laugh

49:10 because and I think part of it was because I think he felt like it was his responsibility to be serious and be the

49:18 man of the house and do things that help others and maybe sometimes laughter and joy wasn't part of that. It was like

49:27 getting things done and I think that's that old school sort of mentality, right? Definitely. Yeah.

49:32 Yep. um what is something that you just immediately think about and start laughing about when when it comes to him?

Chapter 53: A hilarious dad story involving Costco condoms

49:41 So, so a funny story was that my wife and I were visiting my parents and um at

49:48 the time I'm uh in my 30s and my father's I guess at the time, oh jeez, somewhere in his 70s, whatever. Anyway,

49:57 this is before we had my wife and I had kids and we've been together I think six or eight months and we're visiting for about 10 days. I think it's about three

50:04 days in and the cottage is about 30 minutes away from the closest town. And one day I my dad's like, I'm running

50:11 going into town to run some errands and I go to my dad on the side. Hey dad, um could you get some condoms for me? I

50:19 mean, I had to get up the gumption just to ask my father. I'm no I'm a grown man. He's a grown man, but still asking,

50:25 you know, dad to go buy his condoms is like I was like, I don't know. And he's like,

50:29 oh yeah, sure. No problem. Like he didn't even blank. Didn't even explain. He didn't even blink. He was probably inside going, "Yes, yes,

50:37 yes.

50:38 I taught him well." So he goes and he comes back and like couple hours later after done all those errands and he's like he's like he it's like Tiff. So I go to the room. He's like, "So, okay,

50:50 young attractive woman that I had to ask to find out where they are. That was odd." I was like, "Oh, Dad, I'm sure you were a gentleman about." Oh, yeah. It was fine. He's like, "But I got it. So,

50:58 we all good." And he hands me a box of 40 condoms at Costco. And I was like I'm like,

51:06 "Thanks, Dad. I'm like really impressed that you think that's going to happen that much. I'm only here for a few more days. Can I Here's a follow-up question.

51:15 They're sized. Did he did he flatter you or No, I think he was a bit too he punished me. It was a bit too realistic in my

51:23 opinion. The fact he gave me a box of 40, I was like, "Oh my my wife thinks it's hilarious, too." She and I literally come back, "Honey, check out the size of the box you bought."

51:32 Amazing.

Chapter 54: Advice for someone who just lost their father

51:34 If someone just lost their dad yesterday, what would you say to them? Wow. If they lost it yesterday,

51:44 stay positive. I think that's the number one thing. Stay positive. It'll be okay. You'll get through it.

51:51 Well, Tiff, um, thank you so much for sharing, George, for introducing us to George. Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I think it's been

Chapter 55: Final reflections on honoring our dads

52:00 incredibly valuable to learn about your experience and we really appreciate you being as, you know, vulnerable as as you have been. Um,

52:08 absolutely. I want to say thank you as well because again, top of the podcast,

52:12 I mentioned this. You stepped forward right away,

52:14 right? and things that I didn't know at that time that your mom had passed that your brother had passed like we're going through some time that you've had to and

52:23 you're doing that with somebody with whom you don't know that well and so thank you for having the trust the trust that we

52:30 could find some humor and find some interest and joy but also just to let us hear a little bit more and I I really mean this. I appreciate it.

2:39 Thank you. Well, if I'd walked into some small dingy basement with crappy little microphones, I'd be a bit more concerned, but this is all like a

52:46 professional do, right? So, no, no, it's I I pull the No, thank you. Thanks for in our bathroom.

52:54 Yeah. Um, no actually I and I think this is this is something my father would probably have done for his father if the

53:01 technology existed or probably did but you know he probably would have done the same thing if he was given the opportunity because I think it's about you know respecting them and and

53:10 learning from them and honoring them at some level. Yeah. Pleasure. Thank you very much. Absolutely. Appreciate it.

Chapter 56: Closing thoughts

53:18 It's a weird sad funny but we're here to help you laugh. It's the Dead Podcast.