How I Keep Talking About My Dad After He Died | Dead Dads Podcast | Grief Support for Men

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Speaker 0: And I've heard it said before, and I don't think I realized it until

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Speaker 0: maybe maybe this moment that

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Speaker 0: if you don't get to talk about the people, then they they do disappear.

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Speaker 0: Right?

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Speaker 1: Losing your dad sucks, but talking about it doesn't have to.

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Speaker 2: We are not therapists professionally.

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Speaker 2: We may like to think we are, but we are not.

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Speaker 1: We give really good advice though.

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Speaker 1: Mhmm.

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Speaker 1: Just not medically or therapeutically.

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Speaker 1: Although if you do feel better after it, that's okay.

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Speaker 1: You can still you can still listen to us.

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Speaker 2: But we will bill you for that.

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Speaker 2: We're also not doctors.

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Speaker 1: That's true.

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Speaker 1: We're definitely not doctors.

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Speaker 1: I once was a doctor, but then was immediately removed from

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Speaker 1: doctor status.

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Speaker 2: You just had a lab coat on.

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Speaker 2: Like, that's not a doctor.

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Speaker 1: That that was the problem.

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Speaker 1: Enjoy the next episode of dead dads.

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Speaker 1: Scott, why don't you introduce our guest today?

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 2: It is my pleasure to introduce Bill Cooper.

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Speaker 2: So I do know Bill personally as well.

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Speaker 2: Bill and I have done a variety of different things together.

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Speaker 2: We're on a board together about sponsorship marketing.

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Speaker 2: We run into each other at events.

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Speaker 2: Our daughters, yours a little bit older than mine, both play hockey, and so

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Speaker 2: we see each other around the hockey rink.

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Speaker 2: So we have managed to we're hockey dads.

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Speaker 2: That's a that's one of the clubs that we're in.

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Speaker 0: Yeah.

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Speaker 0: I can admit.

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Speaker 0: Yes.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 2: You're a hockey dad.

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Speaker 2: So we are we are we are known to each other before this event.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: So, Bill, why did you decide to do a podcast about your your

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Speaker 1: your

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Speaker 2: And do you feel like it was you that decided to do this podcast?

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Speaker 0: Yeah.

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Speaker 0: I mean, I think when I first heard you mention it or saw you

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Speaker 0: mention it, I can't remember which, it occurred to me that, like, yeah, that's

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Speaker 0: bang on.

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Speaker 0: I mean, it happened, and I never talked about it.

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Speaker 0: But at the same time, I never felt the need to.

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Speaker 0: Yeah.

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Speaker 0: But I thought, oh, that's kind of a cool idea.

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Speaker 0: And, frankly, I I hate to admit this, but I trust you.

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Speaker 0: So that That's

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Speaker 2: that's your

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Speaker 0: first probably influenced why I That's

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Speaker 1: your first mistake, Bill.

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Speaker 2: Bill, it was really just to get you here to record you saying that.

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Speaker 2: I only say because I know your wife was also a proponent of this

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Speaker 2: as well, and so I wondered how much she had as inspiration for this.

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Speaker 0: Yeah.

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Speaker 0: I think that's just the classic cliche.

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Speaker 0: She was willing to volunteer me as opposed to me.

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Speaker 0: But I think I might have raised my hand of my own volition had

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Speaker 0: it not been

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Speaker 2: I'll let the record state.

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Speaker 1: Bill, we wanted to get to know you a a little bit more.

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Speaker 1: So I'm curious.

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Speaker 1: If you've had a real hard day at work, you've you've made it home,

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Speaker 1: you put on some music, what is what is your typical go to?

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Speaker 0: In terms of music?

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Speaker 0: Yeah.

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Speaker 0: Is that

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Speaker 0: little bit folk influenced.

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Speaker 0: Very nice.

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Speaker 0: But I don't mind a guitar solo here and there, so maybe a little

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Speaker 0: bit old old rock.

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Speaker 2: Is there something that you do is there a comfort watch?

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Speaker 2: Something that you do if you're feeling stressed.

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Speaker 2: What do you do to kinda relieve yourself of that feeling after maybe a

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Speaker 2: hard day or a challenging meeting, that kind of stuff?

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Speaker 0: Do a Sudoku or read a book or something, which is going to be

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Speaker 0: it's gonna evolve into a nap within minutes.

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Speaker 1: Interesting.

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Speaker 1: I'm just getting into my napping phase.

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Speaker 1: I'm forty four years old, and it's just starting to get there.

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Speaker 0: Yeah.

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Speaker 0: I think I started at about six.

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Speaker 2: Is there

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Speaker 2: everybody has this, and I'm and I'm again, I know you a little bit,

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Speaker 2: but I'm I'm gonna challenge you.

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Speaker 2: Is there a topic that you without provocation, at the drop of the hat,

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Speaker 2: you could talk about for twenty minutes with no prep work that everybody would

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Speaker 2: probably think is the most boring thing in the world, that it would be

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Speaker 2: super interesting to you?

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Speaker 0: Professionally, I got involved in a niche topic for quite a few years that

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Speaker 0: no one else wanted to talk about, and they were okay to hear me

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Speaker 0: talk about it.

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Speaker 0: So that got to my head and and that's sort of commercial rights.

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Speaker 0: So I feel like, professionally, I can talk I can amble on about that

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Speaker 0: for a long time,

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Speaker 0: which seems to induce other naps around the table for other people.

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Speaker 1: Curious when you're around the house, what's your go to fix it method?

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Speaker 1: Like, how do you how do you, you know, are you a duct tape

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Speaker 1: guy?

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Speaker 1: Are you, you know, I'm gonna put a put a rope around it?

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Speaker 2: Or are you a guy who hires a professional every single time?

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Speaker 0: I think one of my my dubious strengths, it's not

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Speaker 0: like it's it's still a jury's out whether it is a strength, but I'm

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Speaker 0: willing to try stuff.

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Speaker 0: Right?

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Speaker 0: So, I don't know that I can call myself a handyman, but I'm willing

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Speaker 0: to be a handyman.

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Speaker 0: And I joke and my kids joke and my wife, everybody around me jokes

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Speaker 0: that I've fixed a lot of things in the house, but nothing is straight

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Speaker 0: and nothing is quite right.

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Speaker 2: Fixed is in quotes.

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Speaker 0: Yeah.

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Speaker 0: Fixed is in quotes.

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Speaker 0: So I it's a step above duct tape, but it probably would have been

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Speaker 0: better with duct tape.

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Speaker 0: Right.

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Speaker 0: That's kinda where I live, I think.

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Speaker 1: And it depends on if you've had a nap.

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Speaker 0: Yeah.

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Speaker 0: Yeah.

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Speaker 0: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And so things that you fixed, how many of those things have had to

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Speaker 2: have a professional come in and fix them afterwards?

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Speaker 0: There's a toilet ring I did that that, you know, six

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Speaker 0: months later, there was a you know, there was water on the

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Speaker 0: dining room table.

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Speaker 0: But other than that, I think it's been relatively good.

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Speaker 0: But you don't know.

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Speaker 0: Right?

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Speaker 0: I mean, who knows?

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Speaker 0: That could have been me.

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Speaker 0: Could have been the guy who owned it before me.

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Speaker 0: I'm not sure.

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Speaker 0: It's kinda like your disclaimer off the top.

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Speaker 0: You're not a doctor.

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Speaker 0: I'm, you know, I'm a handyman in my own house, but don't call me

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Speaker 0: over.

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Speaker 1: So, Bill, we would love to to learn all about your your your dad.

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Speaker 1: What was his what was his name?

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Speaker 0: Frank.

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Speaker 0: Frank Cooper.

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Speaker 0: Yep.

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Speaker 2: Did he have a middle name?

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Speaker 0: He had two, actually.

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Speaker 0: Corvishley and T.

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Speaker 2: Oh, how did he get those?

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Speaker 0: Well, T is a family name.

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Speaker 0: Okay.

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Speaker 0: That was his mother's maiden name.

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Speaker 0: And I'm embarrassed and sorry to say I don't know the story behind Corvishley,

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Speaker 0: but it's an awesome name.

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Speaker 0: It's my big brother's middle name as well.

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Speaker 0: And, our family has affectionately nicknamed my, current

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Speaker 0: vehicle as Corb after Corbuschly.

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Speaker 2: Did he grow up around here?

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Speaker 2: Or

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Speaker 0: My family was straight off the boat from England.

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Speaker 0: I my sister and I were both born in Canada, but my two brothers

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Speaker 0: were born in England.

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Speaker 0: Spent a few years in Ontario, when he was he was doctor.

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Speaker 0: So they when he was still a GP, he worked in Ontario.

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Speaker 0: He came to Vancouver to specialize, went to the VGH and,

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Speaker 0: took a specialization in radiology, became a radiologist.

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Speaker 1: And and what what kind of a guy was he?

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Speaker 1: How would you describe him?

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Speaker 0: He's like what you would expect of a of a British guy with a

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Speaker 0: an incredibly adventurous spirit.

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Speaker 0: Like, he loved camping and being outdoors, and we had

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Speaker 0: a little hobby farm in the Fraser Valley.

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Speaker 0: Like, he just loved adventure.

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Speaker 0: The guy in the corner of the grammar school, you know, who's reading

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Speaker 0: the Tom Hardy equivalent books and who wants to adventure.

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Speaker 0: Nice.

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Speaker 0: And I I think that's a big part of why they came to Canada,

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Speaker 0: and our life in Canada was peppered with, you know,

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Speaker 0: camping trips that were epic and amazing, but we were probably slightly

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Speaker 0: underprepared for.

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Speaker 0: It's the second

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Speaker 1: time we've talked to

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Speaker 0: him.

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Speaker 0: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I like this new quote for you.

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Speaker 2: Unqualified but willing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It's

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Speaker 1: the name of the episode.

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Speaker 1: And when he when he was outdoors with you guys, was he, like,

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Speaker 1: trying to teach you everything?

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Speaker 1: Was he trying to, like, get you to experience it, but also learn

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Speaker 1: it so that you could pass it down?

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Speaker 0: I think that was there in him, but it was never he

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Speaker 0: never felt it, and it was never obvious.

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Speaker 2: How do you think his friends would have described him?

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Speaker 2: Do you think his friends saw him that way, or do you think they

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Speaker 2: would have a slightly different version of of what he was like?

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Speaker 0: I don't think they would describe him as the head honcho,

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Speaker 0: but, he was fun.

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Speaker 0: I mean, I think they probably that would be really the first word they

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Speaker 0: would reference.

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Speaker 0: He was, he he he was kinda like he always looked like

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Speaker 0: he was a move or a prank away from being sat in the corner

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Speaker 0: by the teacher.

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Speaker 0: Right?

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Speaker 0: Was there ever a prank that sticks in

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Speaker 2: your mind that he did?

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Speaker 0: Well, I mean, he's got some childhood pranks that,

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Speaker 0: kind of are in family lore.

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Speaker 0: Like, they as a family, as I'm told, they rarely

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Speaker 0: went on holiday, but they were on a rare holiday.

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Speaker 0: And, his mother and father were sleeping in, and he and his brother David

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Speaker 0: came in, all excited because they had shot a goose.

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Speaker 0: They thought they had, you know, been sort of adventurous hunters, and they'd gone

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Speaker 0: out with a bow and arrow.

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Speaker 0: And it was a domestic goose, and he brought a they brought a goose

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Speaker 0: into the kitchen at sort of seven o'clock in the morning.

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Speaker 0: And so I think that, you know, there were a lot of stories like

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Speaker 0: that, like stealing apples from the neighbor's orchard and that that sort of thing.

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Speaker 0: That was kind of that was his thing.

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Speaker 0: But I would say not planned pranks.

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Speaker 2: So he's mischievous.

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Speaker 2: Would that be?

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Speaker 2: Good word.

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Speaker 2: He's mischievous.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 2: So he's an adventurer Yep.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, sometimes.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 2: He's obviously taken his family on a large gamble, I guess, and

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Speaker 2: taken you across the ocean.

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Speaker 2: And then he sort of settled here, and he just made his peace with

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Speaker 2: it, and he did the best he could, but he wasn't necessarily the leader

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Speaker 2: in every moment of every day.

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Speaker 0: I mean, it wasn't, you know, like, nonstop

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Speaker 0: luxury and all that sort of stuff, but we we were very comfortable in

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Speaker 0: the valley.

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Speaker 0: We had a nice hop we had a hobby farm by choice, not by

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Speaker 0: necessity.

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Speaker 0: Mhmm.

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Speaker 0: I mean, that's fun.

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Speaker 0: Right?

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Speaker 2: Mhmm.

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Speaker 2: And nonstop luxury is not necessarily the best thing in the world.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 1: Bill, what's, what's one thing that you knew about him, but

00:09:44.125 --> 00:09:45.485
Speaker 1: nobody else really knew about him?

00:09:45.485 --> 00:09:48.780
Speaker 1: Like, did he have a special skill that perhaps

00:09:48.780 --> 00:09:50.460
Speaker 1: people didn't know about?

00:09:50.460 --> 00:09:51.980
Speaker 0: He loved music.

00:09:51.980 --> 00:09:55.180
Speaker 0: Like and he loved it at a bizarre volume.

00:09:55.180 --> 00:09:56.700
Speaker 0: It was so loud.

00:09:56.700 --> 00:10:00.700
Speaker 0: Like, he would play classical music at a vol at an uncomfortable

00:10:00.860 --> 00:10:03.105
Speaker 0: volume.

00:10:03.105 --> 00:10:03.505
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:10:03.505 --> 00:10:04.785
Speaker 0: And so that was his.

00:10:04.785 --> 00:10:06.785
Speaker 0: You asked me what I do after a day's work.

00:10:06.785 --> 00:10:10.785
Speaker 0: Like, he he would put on classical music, and he couldn't play.

00:10:11.825 --> 00:10:15.660
Speaker 0: One year when I was quite young, and I remember my mom giving it

00:10:15.660 --> 00:10:19.660
Speaker 0: to him, but she gave him a conductor's wand for Christmas one year or

00:10:19.740 --> 00:10:21.020
Speaker 0: something.

00:10:21.020 --> 00:10:23.580
Speaker 0: He actually had books that like, he was Oh, he tried.

00:10:23.580 --> 00:10:26.620
Speaker 0: Wasn't learning to be a conductor because he he wanted to be a conductor,

00:10:26.620 --> 00:10:29.765
Speaker 0: but it was part of just he just loved music so much that he

00:10:29.765 --> 00:10:30.085
Speaker 0: Wow.

00:10:30.085 --> 00:10:30.965
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:10:30.965 --> 00:10:34.965
Speaker 1: Bill, can we talk can we talk about, how he how he passed?

00:10:35.765 --> 00:10:38.405
Speaker 1: What was the circumstances around that?

00:10:38.405 --> 00:10:39.365
Speaker 0: How did he pass?

00:10:39.365 --> 00:10:42.645
Speaker 0: I mean, he had a form of dementia,

00:10:42.645 --> 00:10:46.645
Speaker 0: Lewy body, which is I I mean, I'm not

00:10:46.750 --> 00:10:50.750
Speaker 0: a specialist in this, but, I mean, all forms of dementia are very difficult

00:10:50.910 --> 00:10:53.310
Speaker 0: and hard and seemingly unfair.

00:10:53.310 --> 00:10:57.310
Speaker 0: But this one in particular was sort of there were there

00:10:57.455 --> 00:11:00.655
Speaker 0: were moments of, what what do you call it?

00:11:00.655 --> 00:11:03.695
Speaker 0: Like, paranoia.

00:11:03.695 --> 00:11:06.815
Speaker 0: And I think that's not I don't know if it's the only dementia that

00:11:06.815 --> 00:11:10.040
Speaker 0: features that, but Lewy body is one that does.

00:11:10.040 --> 00:11:14.040
Speaker 0: And sometimes the the paranoia can come from real life things.

00:11:14.200 --> 00:11:18.200
Speaker 0: So, actually, some of the books that he read

00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:22.440
Speaker 0: as he was entering dementia heavily influenced

00:11:23.240 --> 00:11:26.475
Speaker 0: the themes of his paranoia.

00:11:26.475 --> 00:11:30.475
Speaker 0: And that was became a hardship for all of us, but most

00:11:30.475 --> 00:11:31.435
Speaker 0: notably my mom.

00:11:31.435 --> 00:11:31.755
Speaker 0: Right?

00:11:31.755 --> 00:11:35.755
Speaker 0: Because she was taking care of him, and there were moments where

00:11:36.235 --> 00:11:40.235
Speaker 0: he would become quite violent,

00:11:40.520 --> 00:11:43.560
Speaker 0: more violent to the ether than anything else.

00:11:43.560 --> 00:11:47.560
Speaker 0: But at times, I think my mom probably felt threatened.

00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:51.240
Speaker 0: So that was really the last few years were tough.

00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:54.825
Speaker 0: And and it's a the funny thing about dementia is now it's passed.

00:11:54.825 --> 00:11:58.825
Speaker 0: You can look back and realize, actually, there were elements of it earlier

00:11:59.145 --> 00:12:00.585
Speaker 0: than we realized.

00:12:00.585 --> 00:12:00.785
Speaker 2: Mhmm.

00:12:00.745 --> 00:12:04.745
Speaker 1: My understanding is this Lewy body is what Robin Williams had,

00:12:05.385 --> 00:12:06.665
Speaker 1: when he when he passed.

00:12:06.665 --> 00:12:10.665
Speaker 1: And the way it's been described is very, yeah, very terrible.

00:12:10.850 --> 00:12:11.730
Speaker 1: I'm sorry

00:12:11.730 --> 00:12:12.210
Speaker 0: for that.

00:12:12.210 --> 00:12:12.690
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:12:12.690 --> 00:12:16.690
Speaker 1: So when you have dementia like that, you know, like, how do you actually

00:12:16.850 --> 00:12:17.330
Speaker 1: pass?

00:12:17.330 --> 00:12:19.250
Speaker 1: Is it

00:12:19.250 --> 00:12:22.335
Speaker 0: He had

00:12:22.335 --> 00:12:26.335
Speaker 0: an acute episode that required calling,

00:12:26.815 --> 00:12:28.495
Speaker 0: the ambulance and the authorities.

00:12:28.495 --> 00:12:32.495
Speaker 0: They my parents at the time and my mother still lives on Salt Spring.

00:12:32.975 --> 00:12:35.535
Speaker 0: So small community and Right.

00:12:35.535 --> 00:12:38.110
Speaker 0: You know, I guess you could say limited resources.

00:12:38.110 --> 00:12:41.550
Speaker 0: Although limited resources have never affected them in a negative way.

00:12:41.550 --> 00:12:44.590
Speaker 0: They, they've always had a great life there.

00:12:44.590 --> 00:12:48.510
Speaker 0: But in this moment, you know, he had a he was having an episode,

00:12:48.510 --> 00:12:50.430
Speaker 0: and they needed to be called.

00:12:50.430 --> 00:12:54.430
Speaker 0: And that he was given some medication that night, a

00:12:54.555 --> 00:12:58.555
Speaker 0: heavy dose because of how his behavior was, and

00:12:59.755 --> 00:13:02.475
Speaker 0: he never really recovered from that dose.

00:13:02.475 --> 00:13:05.710
Speaker 0: But I don't think that's uncommon that, you know, he he he had to

00:13:05.710 --> 00:13:09.070
Speaker 0: be sort of subdued, and they did what they could to subdue him, and

00:13:09.070 --> 00:13:13.070
Speaker 0: he never really, in many ways, came back to life.

00:13:13.150 --> 00:13:13.550
Speaker 0: Mhmm.

00:13:13.550 --> 00:13:16.990
Speaker 0: Because I remember I mean, I got the call, and I got to go

00:13:16.990 --> 00:13:20.355
Speaker 0: over to Salt Spring and sit by his bed with my mom, but I

00:13:20.355 --> 00:13:23.395
Speaker 0: never saw him again, really.

00:13:23.395 --> 00:13:25.795
Speaker 2: So you sorta didn't get a chance to say No.

00:13:25.795 --> 00:13:26.195
Speaker 2: Goodbye.

00:13:26.195 --> 00:13:28.915
Speaker 2: But he had been in the dementia had been for a while, and

00:13:28.915 --> 00:13:30.915
Speaker 0: so, you know, you were aware that Yeah.

00:13:30.915 --> 00:13:32.835
Speaker 2: That time was more limited.

00:13:32.835 --> 00:13:36.835
Speaker 1: What What do you remember most about that day or that moment?

00:13:37.680 --> 00:13:41.040
Speaker 0: Just desperately hoping that there would be a moment of lucidity.

00:13:41.040 --> 00:13:43.120
Speaker 0: That's probably what I remember most.

00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:44.160
Speaker 0: Right.

00:13:44.160 --> 00:13:46.685
Speaker 0: And then, I guess, disappointment that there wasn't.

00:13:46.685 --> 00:13:49.805
Speaker 0: But in the grand scheme of things, I like you say, Scott, I mean,

00:13:49.805 --> 00:13:50.765
Speaker 0: I knew.

00:13:50.765 --> 00:13:54.605
Speaker 0: And because we were are in North Van and they were in Salt Spring,

00:13:54.605 --> 00:13:58.445
Speaker 0: we did see them, you know, fairly frequently.

00:13:58.445 --> 00:14:01.820
Speaker 0: So I didn't feel deprived in that sense.

00:14:01.820 --> 00:14:05.340
Speaker 0: But, you know, that last moment, you kinda have this this Hollywood sense of

00:14:05.340 --> 00:14:06.780
Speaker 0: how it's gonna go and Mhmm.

00:14:06.780 --> 00:14:07.740
Speaker 0: Didn't go that way.

00:14:07.740 --> 00:14:10.380
Speaker 2: The eyes light up and then you communicate directly.

00:14:10.380 --> 00:14:11.100
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:13.260
Speaker 0: So that was probably what I remember most.

00:14:13.260 --> 00:14:17.260
Speaker 0: But I but the way it worked is that, you know, it was clear

00:14:17.305 --> 00:14:21.305
Speaker 0: that this was dire and, you know,

00:14:21.305 --> 00:14:24.185
Speaker 0: very likely this last few days.

00:14:24.185 --> 00:14:28.185
Speaker 0: I had a work commitment and an an uncertainty around how long it

00:14:28.185 --> 00:14:28.980
Speaker 0: would take.

00:14:28.980 --> 00:14:32.980
Speaker 0: And so I went back to the mainland and was told of

00:14:32.980 --> 00:14:36.980
Speaker 0: his passing while at this work thing, which

00:14:38.420 --> 00:14:41.735
Speaker 0: that sounds like something you would regret.

00:14:41.735 --> 00:14:45.415
Speaker 0: And maybe on some level I do, but we had some time in the

00:14:45.415 --> 00:14:49.415
Speaker 0: palliative care as a family that was,

00:14:49.415 --> 00:14:52.855
Speaker 0: you know, sounds awful to say fun, but it was it was fun.

00:14:52.855 --> 00:14:54.295
Speaker 1: We Doesn't sound awful at all.

00:14:54.295 --> 00:14:55.335
Speaker 0: I've I've heard yeah.

00:14:55.335 --> 00:14:55.575
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:14:55.575 --> 00:14:59.575
Speaker 0: We sat with him, and, we you know, it was his birthday, actually.

00:14:59.600 --> 00:15:02.560
Speaker 0: And so we kinda celebrated his birthday unbeknownst to him.

00:15:02.560 --> 00:15:06.560
Speaker 0: And, and we actually got a a noise warning that we were

00:15:06.640 --> 00:15:09.360
Speaker 0: having too much fun.

00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:10.880
Speaker 1: There is something to hang with that on.

00:15:10.880 --> 00:15:11.120
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:14.685
Speaker 0: And my sister snuck a a bottle of scotch in and, you know, those

00:15:14.685 --> 00:15:18.685
Speaker 0: like, it was it was a I got to participate in

00:15:18.845 --> 00:15:22.845
Speaker 0: that moment with my family, which was treasured or is treasured.

00:15:23.805 --> 00:15:27.805
Speaker 1: So when he did pass, what what were the first few days after that

00:15:28.010 --> 00:15:29.450
Speaker 1: like for you?

00:15:29.450 --> 00:15:31.290
Speaker 2: Were you in charge of the process?

00:15:31.290 --> 00:15:32.490
Speaker 2: Because your mom was still around.

00:15:32.490 --> 00:15:34.090
Speaker 2: Did you take on responsibility?

00:15:34.090 --> 00:15:34.730
Speaker 2: Or

00:15:34.730 --> 00:15:35.210
Speaker 0: No.

00:15:35.210 --> 00:15:39.210
Speaker 0: I I'm, like, I'm fortunate about so many things in my life, but one

00:15:39.210 --> 00:15:42.090
Speaker 0: of them is that I have a sibling on Salt Spring.

00:15:42.090 --> 00:15:43.825
Speaker 0: Mhmm.

00:15:43.825 --> 00:15:47.825
Speaker 0: And he and his wife together with my mom, you

00:15:47.825 --> 00:15:51.825
Speaker 0: know, took most of the burden, and we were

00:15:51.905 --> 00:15:54.385
Speaker 0: lucky that all our kids were able to join.

00:15:54.385 --> 00:15:58.385
Speaker 0: Actually, all the grandchildren were able to join, so that was fortuitous.

00:15:59.160 --> 00:16:02.040
Speaker 2: I think it's I mean, there's definitely there's different scenarios.

00:16:02.040 --> 00:16:02.280
Speaker 2: Right?

00:16:02.280 --> 00:16:06.280
Speaker 2: Either you're given the responsibility or you don't have to take the responsibility.

00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:10.840
Speaker 2: But sometimes I wonder about, not having something to do

00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:13.595
Speaker 2: can also be difficult because you wanna contribute.

00:16:13.595 --> 00:16:16.875
Speaker 2: Did you feel a sense of, like, what should I do?

00:16:16.875 --> 00:16:19.595
Speaker 2: I mean, it was you're grateful to your brother for taking this on.

00:16:19.595 --> 00:16:22.795
Speaker 2: So what what is the task, or was it sort of, you know, the

00:16:22.795 --> 00:16:26.010
Speaker 2: gratitude for them and just being there and supporting them?

00:16:26.010 --> 00:16:29.210
Speaker 0: These are a lot of questions, which is why I signed on to do

00:16:29.210 --> 00:16:33.210
Speaker 0: this because I've never asked myself these questions, and,

00:16:33.290 --> 00:16:36.250
Speaker 0: it sounds very,

00:16:36.250 --> 00:16:40.250
Speaker 0: superficial and and trite for me to say now, but I was,

00:16:40.585 --> 00:16:43.305
Speaker 0: you know, which I was busy at work.

00:16:43.305 --> 00:16:43.625
Speaker 0: Mhmm.

00:16:43.625 --> 00:16:45.625
Speaker 0: And I I had that going on.

00:16:45.625 --> 00:16:47.785
Speaker 0: So

00:16:47.785 --> 00:16:50.185
Speaker 0: I think that that is that is that cliche?

00:16:50.185 --> 00:16:53.260
Speaker 0: But to have something to keep you busy Mhmm.

00:16:53.260 --> 00:16:54.060
Speaker 0: Is important.

00:16:54.060 --> 00:16:58.060
Speaker 0: And I I don't think I did that strategically or knowingly,

00:16:58.060 --> 00:17:02.060
Speaker 0: but I think I was probably channeling myself

00:17:02.060 --> 00:17:04.235
Speaker 0: into work.

00:17:04.235 --> 00:17:08.235
Speaker 0: And it just by serendipity, I guess, the thing that I went back

00:17:08.235 --> 00:17:11.275
Speaker 0: to the mainland for was really big for our company.

00:17:11.275 --> 00:17:15.035
Speaker 0: We were bidding to become the sponsorship agency for Whistler Blackcomb.

00:17:15.035 --> 00:17:15.435
Speaker 1: Mhmm.

00:17:15.435 --> 00:17:19.435
Speaker 0: And we were having a nice lunch with Whistler, the sort of

00:17:19.460 --> 00:17:22.340
Speaker 0: the senior execs of Whistler up up there.

00:17:22.340 --> 00:17:22.540
Speaker 0: Mhmm.

00:17:22.500 --> 00:17:26.420
Speaker 0: And that's when I got the call to say that he had passed.

00:17:26.420 --> 00:17:26.900
Speaker 0: And did you

00:17:26.900 --> 00:17:30.900
Speaker 1: go back to the table and say my dad just died?

00:17:31.215 --> 00:17:35.215
Speaker 0: My partner, my business partner at the time, she knew what was going on.

00:17:35.215 --> 00:17:39.215
Speaker 0: So she I think when I got the phone call, she intrinsically knew.

00:17:39.215 --> 00:17:40.495
Speaker 0: I didn't have to say.

00:17:40.495 --> 00:17:41.775
Speaker 0: Mhmm.

00:17:41.775 --> 00:17:45.775
Speaker 0: But I I managed to sort of get through the rest of the

00:17:45.850 --> 00:17:48.890
Speaker 0: day and and stay stay mentally busy.

00:17:48.890 --> 00:17:50.650
Speaker 0: Mhmm.

00:17:50.650 --> 00:17:54.650
Speaker 0: And then I so that, you know, those those I don't know if

00:17:54.650 --> 00:17:58.435
Speaker 0: those are deflections from the question, but I I think in retrospect, that is

00:17:58.435 --> 00:18:01.715
Speaker 0: that is how I stayed mentally and emotionally busy.

00:18:01.715 --> 00:18:05.715
Speaker 0: And then I think the other parts are that we had a ceremony within

00:18:06.035 --> 00:18:08.675
Speaker 0: I think it was a bus it it was it ended up being family

00:18:08.675 --> 00:18:10.275
Speaker 0: day weekend that we had the ceremony.

00:18:10.275 --> 00:18:10.475
Speaker 0: So

00:18:10.395 --> 00:18:11.235
Speaker 2: he February.

00:18:11.235 --> 00:18:15.235
Speaker 0: So he he passed, you know, days before, and that was, again, serendipity

00:18:15.670 --> 00:18:17.910
Speaker 0: because it allowed us to bring everybody together.

00:18:17.910 --> 00:18:20.630
Speaker 0: And so, you know, planning

00:18:20.630 --> 00:18:24.230
Speaker 0: to have everybody together, whether it was booking some rooms or, you know, ordering

00:18:24.230 --> 00:18:25.590
Speaker 0: a charcuterie board or whatever.

00:18:25.590 --> 00:18:29.590
Speaker 0: There were there were little minor tasks, and there was the company of

00:18:29.735 --> 00:18:30.295
Speaker 0: family.

00:18:30.295 --> 00:18:30.695
Speaker 2: Mhmm.

00:18:30.695 --> 00:18:34.615
Speaker 0: All those things, I think, help mitigate

00:18:34.615 --> 00:18:35.335
Speaker 0: the moment.

00:18:35.335 --> 00:18:35.655
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:18:35.655 --> 00:18:38.215
Speaker 1: How were your kids throughout everything?

00:18:38.215 --> 00:18:41.140
Speaker 1: You mentioned you've got kids, and were they close to

00:18:41.140 --> 00:18:41.700
Speaker 0: grandpa?

00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:45.700
Speaker 0: My wife and I, lived overseas for a lot of years and

00:18:45.860 --> 00:18:49.860
Speaker 0: had two kids overseas and then two when we came back here to Canada.

00:18:49.860 --> 00:18:53.860
Speaker 0: And one of the strongest motivations to come home was

00:18:53.945 --> 00:18:57.865
Speaker 0: to spend time with grandparents, and so the kids all got to spend time

00:18:57.865 --> 00:18:59.385
Speaker 0: with them.

00:18:59.385 --> 00:19:02.185
Speaker 0: And I I don't know without asking my kids and without being in the

00:19:02.185 --> 00:19:04.265
Speaker 0: room how much it affected them.

00:19:04.265 --> 00:19:08.265
Speaker 0: I don't recall it being, like, a dark

00:19:08.490 --> 00:19:12.490
Speaker 0: day of tears and, you know, like, you know, super expressive

00:19:12.730 --> 00:19:13.450
Speaker 0: emotions.

00:19:13.450 --> 00:19:14.970
Speaker 1: Mhmm.

00:19:14.970 --> 00:19:18.330
Speaker 0: But they were they were embraced by family.

00:19:18.330 --> 00:19:18.570
Speaker 0: Right?

00:19:18.570 --> 00:19:22.570
Speaker 0: So the the extroverted emotion was mitigated

00:19:22.715 --> 00:19:24.875
Speaker 0: by the company of family.

00:19:24.875 --> 00:19:25.515
Speaker 0: I'm interested in

00:19:25.515 --> 00:19:26.075
Speaker 2: it a little bit.

00:19:26.075 --> 00:19:29.675
Speaker 2: I mean, your kids are older as well too about you know, it's your

00:19:29.675 --> 00:19:31.835
Speaker 2: process because it's your dad and it's your family.

00:19:31.835 --> 00:19:35.640
Speaker 2: And then but it's their grandpa or it's their, you know, relative.

00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:39.640
Speaker 2: How much engagement you you offer to your kids, I think, is sometimes

00:19:39.640 --> 00:19:40.120
Speaker 2: fascinating.

00:19:40.120 --> 00:19:43.240
Speaker 2: But I'm also wondering so,

00:19:43.240 --> 00:19:44.440
Speaker 2: he's passed.

00:19:44.440 --> 00:19:48.440
Speaker 2: And then do you feel a sense of of responsibility,

00:19:48.815 --> 00:19:52.255
Speaker 2: or do you feel a sense of ownership about keeping his memory in them?

00:19:52.255 --> 00:19:55.535
Speaker 2: Do you think they have inherited that, or is there any sort of sense

00:19:55.535 --> 00:19:59.535
Speaker 2: of how we continually know him now that he's

00:19:59.570 --> 00:20:00.290
Speaker 2: gone away.

00:20:00.290 --> 00:20:04.290
Speaker 0: I mean, I and I'm gonna sound like a TV ad here or I

00:20:04.290 --> 00:20:08.210
Speaker 0: forget which brand it is that always depicts family meals, but it it's family

00:20:08.210 --> 00:20:08.770
Speaker 0: meals.

00:20:08.770 --> 00:20:10.850
Speaker 2: Mhmm.

00:20:10.850 --> 00:20:14.815
Speaker 0: That's a tradition that was in Laurel's family and and, you know, super strong

00:20:14.815 --> 00:20:15.375
Speaker 0: in my family.

00:20:15.375 --> 00:20:18.655
Speaker 0: And I I'm not I don't know that my dad was the chief architect

00:20:18.655 --> 00:20:20.255
Speaker 0: of that in my family.

00:20:20.255 --> 00:20:24.255
Speaker 0: But it it's it it sort of mimics what you imagine of

00:20:24.495 --> 00:20:25.935
Speaker 0: a proper English family.

00:20:25.935 --> 00:20:29.340
Speaker 0: Like, you you respect you respect the home.

00:20:29.340 --> 00:20:30.860
Speaker 0: You respect the traditions of the home.

00:20:30.860 --> 00:20:32.300
Speaker 0: And you Sunday roast?

00:20:32.300 --> 00:20:32.780
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:20:32.780 --> 00:20:32.980
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:20:32.940 --> 00:20:33.660
Speaker 0: Absolutely.

00:20:33.660 --> 00:20:34.220
Speaker 0: Yorkshire food

00:20:34.220 --> 00:20:34.700
Speaker 1: made the archers?

00:20:34.700 --> 00:20:35.020
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:20:35.020 --> 00:20:35.220
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:20:35.180 --> 00:20:35.820
Speaker 0: Absolutely.

00:20:35.820 --> 00:20:37.340
Speaker 0: All of those things.

00:20:37.340 --> 00:20:40.860
Speaker 0: And I and that means that we talk we not only do we eat

00:20:40.860 --> 00:20:41.900
Speaker 0: at the table, we talk.

00:20:41.900 --> 00:20:45.595
Speaker 0: And because we are at the table and we talk, we do tell stories

00:20:45.595 --> 00:20:46.475
Speaker 0: of my mom and dad.

00:20:46.475 --> 00:20:47.595
Speaker 0: Right.

00:20:47.595 --> 00:20:51.595
Speaker 0: Not because we plan to, but because that's what family time is.

00:20:52.235 --> 00:20:55.515
Speaker 2: Is there a story that you your kids would say you maybe have told

00:20:55.515 --> 00:20:56.875
Speaker 2: just one time too many?

00:20:56.875 --> 00:21:00.140
Speaker 2: Is there a story that gets repeated maybe a little bit?

00:21:00.140 --> 00:21:04.140
Speaker 0: One of the ones that gets the the most is that he you know,

00:21:04.300 --> 00:21:07.820
Speaker 0: by the time we I was old enough to remember, we were settled in

00:21:07.820 --> 00:21:09.020
Speaker 0: the valley.

00:21:09.020 --> 00:21:11.900
Speaker 0: Again, we were quite a, you know, a fairly privileged family because he was

00:21:11.900 --> 00:21:14.045
Speaker 0: a doctor.

00:21:14.045 --> 00:21:17.565
Speaker 0: And, so we were fairly well-to-do, and we went on these camping trips.

00:21:17.565 --> 00:21:20.765
Speaker 0: But he was not, you know, like every a lot of people that grew

00:21:20.765 --> 00:21:24.765
Speaker 0: up in England wartime, he doesn't he didn't flaunt

00:21:25.485 --> 00:21:26.285
Speaker 0: his wealth.

00:21:26.285 --> 00:21:27.230
Speaker 0: Mhmm.

00:21:27.230 --> 00:21:30.190
Speaker 0: And so he did things on the relative cheap.

00:21:30.190 --> 00:21:33.310
Speaker 0: And so when we packed to go camping, he used what was around the

00:21:33.310 --> 00:21:33.630
Speaker 0: house.

00:21:33.630 --> 00:21:33.870
Speaker 0: Right?

00:21:33.870 --> 00:21:34.910
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:21:34.910 --> 00:21:38.910
Speaker 0: And so, he, like many of us in the family, had

00:21:38.910 --> 00:21:42.910
Speaker 0: some nasal nasal congestion problems, so he always had bottles of Oatravin around.

00:21:44.005 --> 00:21:48.005
Speaker 0: And, in this case, he had put, the dish soap in the Oatravin

00:21:48.325 --> 00:21:48.725
Speaker 0: bottle.

00:21:48.725 --> 00:21:51.045
Speaker 0: Oh, no.

00:21:51.045 --> 00:21:52.885
Speaker 2: And he Give it the quick wipe like this.

00:21:52.885 --> 00:21:53.685
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:21:53.685 --> 00:21:55.525
Speaker 0: And he hadn't labeled it.

00:21:55.525 --> 00:21:59.525
Speaker 0: So there was a scene of my dad, sort of, you know, breathing

00:22:00.080 --> 00:22:04.080
Speaker 0: bubbles out of his nose after having applied a healthy dose of

00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:05.840
Speaker 0: dish soap up his nose.

00:22:05.840 --> 00:22:07.040
Speaker 0: Amazing.

00:22:07.040 --> 00:22:09.840
Speaker 0: So that one gets told a fair fair fair a few times.

00:22:09.840 --> 00:22:10.160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:14.160
Speaker 2: Were there any traits that maybe you picked up after he passed?

00:22:14.295 --> 00:22:17.655
Speaker 2: Is there anything that you think you've inherited from him?

00:22:17.655 --> 00:22:18.615
Speaker 0: Frighteningly so.

00:22:18.615 --> 00:22:20.775
Speaker 0: My wife and my kids make fun of me for it.

00:22:20.775 --> 00:22:21.175
Speaker 0: Mhmm.

00:22:21.175 --> 00:22:25.175
Speaker 0: And I and in in their company, I defend my safe self

00:22:25.320 --> 00:22:25.800
Speaker 0: and say, no.

00:22:25.800 --> 00:22:27.640
Speaker 0: That's not true, but I know it's absolutely true.

00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:31.000
Speaker 0: Like, I'm I don't know that I'm a carbon copy of my dad, but

00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:32.600
Speaker 0: I

00:22:32.600 --> 00:22:36.600
Speaker 0: I love puttering around the garden, and I'm terrible at it.

00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:40.680
Speaker 0: Jack of all trades, master of none type thing that's the I share

00:22:40.865 --> 00:22:41.905
Speaker 0: that with him.

00:22:41.905 --> 00:22:44.785
Speaker 0: I think I have a lot of his traits, which is weird.

00:22:44.785 --> 00:22:47.585
Speaker 0: I when when you grow up in that environment, you think, oh, I'm never

00:22:47.585 --> 00:22:48.145
Speaker 0: gonna be like that.

00:22:48.145 --> 00:22:49.345
Speaker 0: I'm gonna do I'm gonna do this.

00:22:49.345 --> 00:22:49.985
Speaker 0: I'm gonna do that.

00:22:49.985 --> 00:22:53.060
Speaker 0: But in the end, I'm, I'm just a dreamer.

00:22:53.060 --> 00:22:57.060
Speaker 0: I'm a guy that reads adventure books and adventures a little, but isn't really

00:22:57.540 --> 00:22:58.740
Speaker 0: a leader in the class.

00:22:58.740 --> 00:23:02.740
Speaker 0: Just, you know, I it's it's more that you have that sentimental

00:23:02.740 --> 00:23:05.575
Speaker 0: attachment to adventure.

00:23:05.575 --> 00:23:08.695
Speaker 2: I mentioned this to Roger where,

00:23:08.695 --> 00:23:11.415
Speaker 2: my laugh changed.

00:23:11.415 --> 00:23:14.215
Speaker 2: I suddenly developed his his laugh Oh, really?

00:23:14.215 --> 00:23:17.735
Speaker 2: Which feels odd to me to say that because, again, it's supposed to be

00:23:17.735 --> 00:23:18.720
Speaker 2: something organic.

00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:18.920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:20.720
Speaker 2: And yet I suddenly started laughing like him.

00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:24.720
Speaker 2: And it's a weird it's a it's a trait that I didn't recognize that

00:23:24.800 --> 00:23:27.040
Speaker 2: was his, and then I did it, and I was like, why know who

00:23:27.040 --> 00:23:28.000
Speaker 2: did that?

00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:29.200
Speaker 2: So I there's these things.

00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:32.785
Speaker 2: Sometimes I think that they just come at you sideways, and you're like, why

00:23:32.785 --> 00:23:33.665
Speaker 2: didn't I start doing that?

00:23:33.665 --> 00:23:34.625
Speaker 2: Oh, this is a thing.

00:23:34.625 --> 00:23:38.225
Speaker 0: One of the other ones we laugh at a bit, which, I don't know

00:23:38.225 --> 00:23:39.105
Speaker 0: how much I do it.

00:23:39.105 --> 00:23:41.585
Speaker 0: You don't know the other people at the table know.

00:23:41.585 --> 00:23:45.585
Speaker 0: But myself and my oldest daughter, we are we've been known to

00:23:45.985 --> 00:23:49.985
Speaker 0: make a humming type noise while you're eating Oh.

00:23:50.140 --> 00:23:52.780
Speaker 0: Which my dad did with gusto.

00:23:52.780 --> 00:23:53.980
Speaker 1: Oh, wow.

00:23:53.980 --> 00:23:57.260
Speaker 1: And does the does the change depending on if you like what you're eating

00:23:57.260 --> 00:23:57.580
Speaker 1: or not?

00:23:57.580 --> 00:23:58.300
Speaker 1: Like, is it like a

00:23:58.300 --> 00:24:01.945
Speaker 0: I think well, I think it comes on out of, I'm guessing, it comes

00:24:01.945 --> 00:24:02.905
Speaker 0: out out of pleasure.

00:24:02.905 --> 00:24:05.913
Speaker 0: Like, you're enjoying being at the table and eating and Just something.

00:24:05.913 --> 00:24:06.585
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:24:06.585 --> 00:24:10.585
Speaker 0: Like, yeah.

00:24:10.745 --> 00:24:11.385
Speaker 1: Love that.

00:24:11.385 --> 00:24:11.865
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:24:11.865 --> 00:24:12.425
Speaker 0: Love that.

00:24:12.425 --> 00:24:14.127
Speaker 2: I like to think of your dad humming maybe in, some of those classical

00:24:14.127 --> 00:24:14.327
Speaker 2: songs that he likes to hear.

00:24:14.214 --> 00:24:14.414
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:24:14.229 --> 00:24:14.429
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:24:14.258 --> 00:24:14.458
Speaker 2: In the back of his mind.

00:24:14.345 --> 00:24:16.790
Speaker 2: I heard

00:24:16.790 --> 00:24:17.030
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:24:17.030 --> 00:24:17.230
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:24:17.190 --> 00:24:17.390
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:24:17.350 --> 00:24:19.110
Speaker 2: In the back of his mind.

00:24:19.110 --> 00:24:22.870
Speaker 1: I heard you say earlier that you, you know, you you haven't really talked

00:24:22.870 --> 00:24:23.910
Speaker 1: about this a lot.

00:24:23.910 --> 00:24:27.910
Speaker 1: And, I'm curious why why why do you think that is?

00:24:28.085 --> 00:24:31.045
Speaker 0: I don't feel that I have

00:24:31.045 --> 00:24:35.045
Speaker 0: suffered tremendously nor have I craved

00:24:35.205 --> 00:24:37.125
Speaker 0: some help with navigating that.

00:24:37.125 --> 00:24:38.245
Speaker 0: Mhmm.

00:24:38.245 --> 00:24:42.245
Speaker 0: And I don't know if that means that I'm being naive and

00:24:42.690 --> 00:24:46.690
Speaker 0: blind to the fact or whether I have good natural sort

00:24:47.010 --> 00:24:51.010
Speaker 0: of mitigation techniques that I'm without knowing it,

00:24:51.010 --> 00:24:53.970
Speaker 0: staying busy or doing things that are allowing me to manage.

00:24:53.970 --> 00:24:55.325
Speaker 0: I'm not sure.

00:24:55.325 --> 00:24:59.005
Speaker 0: And and in saying that, I feel, like, I feel a sense of guilt.

00:24:59.005 --> 00:25:02.445
Speaker 0: I'm like, jeez, am I a bad am I a bad person?

00:25:02.445 --> 00:25:06.445
Speaker 0: But, but maybe that's part of what Frank helped teach me.

00:25:06.525 --> 00:25:06.765
Speaker 0: Right?

00:25:06.765 --> 00:25:10.765
Speaker 0: I mean, he he, just he just got on with life.

00:25:11.460 --> 00:25:12.980
Speaker 0: I see my kids now.

00:25:12.980 --> 00:25:16.980
Speaker 0: They have challenges at school and with sports and things like that,

00:25:17.060 --> 00:25:21.060
Speaker 0: and they they're expressive in the moment,

00:25:21.555 --> 00:25:25.555
Speaker 0: but they don't seem to carry it for a long time.

00:25:25.875 --> 00:25:29.875
Speaker 0: Maybe that's something that my dad and others from that

00:25:29.955 --> 00:25:33.955
Speaker 0: generation, you know, what they've given us is that's that resilience is

00:25:35.090 --> 00:25:36.210
Speaker 0: is a strong trait.

00:25:36.210 --> 00:25:37.250
Speaker 0: Right?

00:25:37.250 --> 00:25:39.650
Speaker 2: Performative guilt is a is a funny one, isn't it?

00:25:39.650 --> 00:25:43.650
Speaker 2: This idea of, like, especially the question sometimes feels like it's leading.

00:25:43.970 --> 00:25:45.330
Speaker 2: Like, do you feel guilty?

00:25:45.330 --> 00:25:47.170
Speaker 2: And then the answer is no.

00:25:47.170 --> 00:25:47.410
Speaker 2: No.

00:25:47.410 --> 00:25:49.890
Speaker 2: But you feel like you should feel guilty.

00:25:49.890 --> 00:25:52.295
Speaker 2: And I I mean, the yeah.

00:25:52.295 --> 00:25:56.295
Speaker 2: I think that is a very real challenge about this because,

00:25:57.255 --> 00:26:01.255
Speaker 2: there are some Hollywood esque presubscribed notions

00:26:01.335 --> 00:26:05.335
Speaker 2: of what grief looks like and what you should do when you're being

00:26:05.570 --> 00:26:07.250
Speaker 2: presented with this scenario.

00:26:07.250 --> 00:26:10.610
Speaker 2: And yet I think what I know and Roger and I have spoken about,

00:26:10.610 --> 00:26:14.610
Speaker 2: and so far everybody's, that there's literally no set of rules that

00:26:14.690 --> 00:26:15.730
Speaker 2: you have to follow.

00:26:15.730 --> 00:26:19.730
Speaker 2: You you could almost easily pass the milestone of putting your father

00:26:20.045 --> 00:26:23.565
Speaker 2: to rest and moving on to your life, and and that may be your

00:26:23.565 --> 00:26:23.885
Speaker 2: path.

00:26:23.885 --> 00:26:26.285
Speaker 2: And it may just come up in, you know, odd moments.

00:26:26.285 --> 00:26:26.685
Speaker 0: Yep.

00:26:26.685 --> 00:26:30.685
Speaker 2: But I I do think that the question of should

00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:34.720
Speaker 2: I feel more guilty or why don't I feel more guilty

00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:38.960
Speaker 2: is an interesting one to explore for me anyway because I think that

00:26:39.520 --> 00:26:42.560
Speaker 2: sometimes develops more into a question about who I am as a person.

00:26:42.560 --> 00:26:46.265
Speaker 2: It becomes more of a a discussion about what I feel about anything.

00:26:46.265 --> 00:26:48.025
Speaker 2: So that question I think is fascinating.

00:26:48.025 --> 00:26:49.545
Speaker 2: Just asking myself,

00:26:49.545 --> 00:26:49.745
Speaker 0: should

00:26:49.705 --> 00:26:50.745
Speaker 2: I feel more guilty?

00:26:50.745 --> 00:26:54.425
Speaker 2: Because it's maybe should I feel more guilty about a job that I didn't

00:26:54.425 --> 00:26:56.905
Speaker 2: do well at or if I it becomes kind of a character

00:26:56.905 --> 00:26:57.305
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:26:57.305 --> 00:26:59.400
Speaker 2: Discussion for me sometimes.

00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:02.920
Speaker 0: Nine point nine times out of ten, if not a hundred times, or I

00:27:02.920 --> 00:27:04.760
Speaker 0: guess it would be ten times.

00:27:04.760 --> 00:27:05.080
Speaker 0: Math.

00:27:05.080 --> 00:27:05.480
Speaker 0: Math.

00:27:05.480 --> 00:27:06.440
Speaker 1: So much math.

00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:06.840
Speaker 1: Math.

00:27:06.840 --> 00:27:08.040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:27:08.040 --> 00:27:11.655
Speaker 0: You know, the the parent who you lose

00:27:11.655 --> 00:27:15.655
Speaker 0: would want you to succeed in life and and do

00:27:15.655 --> 00:27:19.655
Speaker 0: all the good things and not be, you know, succumb

00:27:19.815 --> 00:27:23.815
Speaker 0: to grief or, you know, emotional obstacles, etcetera, that impede you.

00:27:24.260 --> 00:27:28.260
Speaker 0: So the fact that I haven't perhaps I'm I'm I'm living

00:27:28.260 --> 00:27:32.260
Speaker 0: my best frank even though I haven't felt a huge amount of,

00:27:33.780 --> 00:27:37.780
Speaker 0: you know, the what's perceived or what's put out there as the

00:27:38.001 --> 00:27:41.025
Speaker 0: the the the grief that should follow.

00:27:41.025 --> 00:27:44.545
Speaker 0: On multiple occasions in the last year is when we are over on Salt

00:27:44.545 --> 00:27:47.665
Speaker 0: Spring or when one of my older kids comes a day or two later

00:27:47.665 --> 00:27:51.665
Speaker 0: or what have you, we hear them and their cousins describe,

00:27:52.530 --> 00:27:56.530
Speaker 0: oh, I stopped to see Frank on the way back from Fulford Ferry.

00:27:57.170 --> 00:27:59.170
Speaker 0: So they stop at his headstone.

00:27:59.170 --> 00:28:01.810
Speaker 0: See, that makes me cry.

00:28:01.810 --> 00:28:04.385
Speaker 0: So what more can you ask for?

00:28:04.385 --> 00:28:07.585
Speaker 2: Does his or did his passing or does it in the in the current

00:28:07.585 --> 00:28:10.545
Speaker 2: sense make you feel anything about your own mortality?

00:28:10.545 --> 00:28:14.545
Speaker 2: There's sometimes this occurred to me, which is, you know, when my father passed,

00:28:14.865 --> 00:28:17.680
Speaker 2: then this idea of it now swings to me.

00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:21.680
Speaker 2: Does it make you think about that or about your sense of what time

00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:24.080
Speaker 2: you have on this earth?

00:28:24.080 --> 00:28:26.800
Speaker 0: I would say

00:28:26.800 --> 00:28:30.800
Speaker 0: I've had I don't know if it was a midlife or a late life

00:28:31.055 --> 00:28:35.055
Speaker 0: crisis or whatever it was, but I I lost my job,

00:28:35.535 --> 00:28:39.535
Speaker 0: unexpectedly through someone else's decision, a few years ago.

00:28:39.535 --> 00:28:43.535
Speaker 0: And through that process and maybe in retrospect a little bit

00:28:43.630 --> 00:28:47.630
Speaker 0: of dad passing and seeing my mom at times struggle a bit, I've

00:28:47.630 --> 00:28:51.310
Speaker 0: had kind of a change of heart about this is not about me.

00:28:51.310 --> 00:28:52.510
Speaker 0: It's about them.

00:28:52.510 --> 00:28:53.150
Speaker 0: Mhmm.

00:28:53.150 --> 00:28:53.470
Speaker 0: Right?

00:28:53.470 --> 00:28:57.470
Speaker 0: And so you you kinda change gears and you're less preoccupied with

00:28:57.595 --> 00:29:01.595
Speaker 0: what you're doing and more preoccupied with what's the cool stuff my

00:29:01.675 --> 00:29:02.395
Speaker 0: kids are doing.

00:29:02.395 --> 00:29:02.635
Speaker 0: Right?

00:29:02.635 --> 00:29:03.755
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:29:03.755 --> 00:29:07.755
Speaker 0: You you you you you change gears, and and you you

00:29:08.155 --> 00:29:12.155
Speaker 0: are really contented and happy to watch them progress.

00:29:13.400 --> 00:29:17.400
Speaker 1: Well, but we really, really enjoyed meeting you and learning more about

00:29:17.480 --> 00:29:17.880
Speaker 1: Frank.

00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:21.880
Speaker 1: And, before we go, I'm just curious if you could give one piece of

00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:25.880
Speaker 1: advice to any guy out there who just lost their dad,

00:29:26.275 --> 00:29:27.795
Speaker 1: what what would that be?

00:29:27.795 --> 00:29:31.795
Speaker 0: You you probably have embraced either knowingly or unknowingly

00:29:32.595 --> 00:29:34.835
Speaker 0: a family tradition.

00:29:34.835 --> 00:29:36.115
Speaker 0: Keep embracing it.

00:29:36.115 --> 00:29:40.115
Speaker 0: Keep carrying it forward, because that that

00:29:40.170 --> 00:29:42.410
Speaker 0: will be a huge resource for you.

00:29:42.410 --> 00:29:46.410
Speaker 0: Your your stability, your pride, and what they built and you are now building

00:29:46.730 --> 00:29:48.810
Speaker 0: and how that passes on down.

00:29:48.810 --> 00:29:52.715
Speaker 0: And and, ultimately, I I never asked my kids to visit his headstone, but

00:29:52.715 --> 00:29:56.715
Speaker 0: I have a nephew who goes and visits with a with a

00:29:56.715 --> 00:29:57.675
Speaker 0: bottle of scotch.

00:29:57.675 --> 00:29:58.715
Speaker 0: Oh, nice.

00:29:58.715 --> 00:30:00.955
Speaker 0: That's pretty nice.

00:30:00.955 --> 00:30:04.955
Speaker 0: I can't afford the scotch.

00:30:05.115 --> 00:30:09.115
Speaker 2: Is there a trade of his that you miss the most out of out

00:30:09.250 --> 00:30:10.930
Speaker 2: of all of the great things that he did?

00:30:10.930 --> 00:30:13.490
Speaker 2: Is there one thing that sort of sticks with you about who he was

00:30:13.490 --> 00:30:14.450
Speaker 2: that you miss?

00:30:14.450 --> 00:30:17.330
Speaker 0: I think it's just presence, not a trait.

00:30:17.330 --> 00:30:18.530
Speaker 0: Mhmm.

00:30:18.530 --> 00:30:18.850
Speaker 0: Right?

00:30:18.850 --> 00:30:22.610
Speaker 0: When we my sister and brother and I that are still on the West

00:30:22.610 --> 00:30:26.610
Speaker 0: Coast, we will go fishing or do things that Frank would have

00:30:26.655 --> 00:30:30.015
Speaker 0: done and just not having him there.

00:30:30.015 --> 00:30:32.495
Speaker 0: That's probably what you miss the most.

00:30:32.495 --> 00:30:35.695
Speaker 0: Classical music blaring, that'd be that'd be kinda nice.

00:30:35.695 --> 00:30:38.580
Speaker 0: Not because I want it all the time, but it'll be a nice re

00:30:38.580 --> 00:30:39.540
Speaker 0: reoccurrence.

00:30:39.540 --> 00:30:40.100
Speaker 0: Right.

00:30:40.100 --> 00:30:41.620
Speaker 0: So maybe that's a trait you miss.

00:30:41.620 --> 00:30:42.980
Speaker 0: So there's things like that.

00:30:42.980 --> 00:30:46.980
Speaker 0: My daughter and I while we eat, so we got that ourselves anyway.

00:30:49.620 --> 00:30:50.625
Speaker 2: Bill?

00:30:50.625 --> 00:30:51.505
Speaker 2: Thank you.

00:30:51.505 --> 00:30:52.465
Speaker 2: Thanks for coming in.

00:30:52.465 --> 00:30:54.145
Speaker 2: Thanks for agreeing to do it.

00:30:54.145 --> 00:30:57.345
Speaker 2: Thanks for being intentional about it.

00:30:57.345 --> 00:31:01.345
Speaker 2: And and I think I get the sense from our conversations,

00:31:01.585 --> 00:31:05.360
Speaker 2: like, there is a sense of you trying to do the right thing, trying

00:31:05.360 --> 00:31:09.360
Speaker 2: to think about the right thing, but it I think being curious and interesting

00:31:09.440 --> 00:31:10.000
Speaker 2: is great.

00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:12.480
Speaker 2: I know it's helpful for me, but I hope it was helpful for you.

00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:13.200
Speaker 2: And so thank you.

00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:14.240
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming.

00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:14.640
Speaker 1: Thank you.

00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:14.880
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:15.080
Speaker 0: No.

00:31:15.040 --> 00:31:18.355
Speaker 0: It was it was it was weird word to say, but it was fun.

00:31:18.355 --> 00:31:19.235
Speaker 0: I appreciate it.

00:31:19.235 --> 00:31:20.115
Speaker 0: It was good good

00:31:20.115 --> 00:31:23.155
Speaker 2: There are no good words for a dead dad's podcast.

00:31:23.155 --> 00:31:23.475
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:31:23.475 --> 00:31:24.595
Speaker 2: We can't figure what.

00:31:24.595 --> 00:31:24.835
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:31:24.835 --> 00:31:25.235
Speaker 2: So

00:31:25.235 --> 00:31:26.515
Speaker 1: We haven't done it yet.

00:31:26.515 --> 00:31:26.835
Speaker 2: Fine.

00:31:26.835 --> 00:31:27.075
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:31:27.075 --> 00:31:27.315
Speaker 0: Yeah.

00:31:27.315 --> 00:31:27.515
Speaker 0: No.

00:31:27.475 --> 00:31:28.195
Speaker 0: I enjoyed it.

00:31:28.195 --> 00:31:29.155
Speaker 0: And it's it's cool.

00:31:29.155 --> 00:31:30.515
Speaker 0: You get to talk about these things.

00:31:30.515 --> 00:31:30.755
Speaker 0: Right?

00:31:30.755 --> 00:31:34.400
Speaker 0: And, and I've heard it said before, and I don't think I realized it

00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:38.160
Speaker 0: until maybe maybe this moment that

00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:41.360
Speaker 0: if you don't get to talk about the people, then they they do disappear.

00:31:41.360 --> 00:31:41.840
Speaker 0: Right?

00:31:41.840 --> 00:31:45.280
Speaker 0: So better to talk about them, you know, than not.

00:31:45.280 --> 00:31:45.840
Speaker 0: Right?

00:31:45.840 --> 00:31:49.840
Speaker 0: You don't wanna keep that bottled up because then the next generation won't recall.

00:31:52.085 --> 00:31:54.805
Speaker 1: A good way to good way to wrap up here.

00:31:54.805 --> 00:31:57.285
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, for all you guys out there.

00:31:57.285 --> 00:32:00.350
Speaker 1: Another episode of the Dead Dads podcast is in the can.

00:32:00.350 --> 00:32:04.350
Speaker 1: I need you to do us a huge favor and like and subscribe, the

00:32:04.430 --> 00:32:06.430
Speaker 1: podcast wherever you're listening or watching.

00:32:06.430 --> 00:32:09.870
Speaker 1: Actually, something really, really cool that we would love you to do is is

00:32:09.870 --> 00:32:12.910
Speaker 1: leave a comment on maybe a piece of advice you have for someone out

00:32:12.910 --> 00:32:14.475
Speaker 1: there who's lost their father.

00:32:14.475 --> 00:32:18.315
Speaker 1: I think that could be hugely valuable to our community.

00:32:18.315 --> 00:32:20.635
Speaker 1: Scott, Rondo, another one?

00:32:20.635 --> 00:32:21.595
Speaker 2: Absolutely right.

00:32:21.595 --> 00:32:22.395
Speaker 2: Rondo, another one.

00:32:22.395 --> 00:32:25.275
Speaker 2: If you didn't like the podcast, leave a comment and said that you liked

00:32:25.275 --> 00:32:27.115
Speaker 2: the podcast because that helps as well.

00:32:27.115 --> 00:32:27.435
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:32:27.435 --> 00:32:28.955
Speaker 1: Just lie.

00:32:28.955 --> 00:32:30.955
Speaker 1: Thanks.