If You Don’t Talk About Your Dad, He Disappears

This is the word-for-word transcript of the Dead Dads Podcast episode featuring Bill Cooper, organized by the chapters you provided.

Chapter 1: Why talking about our dads keeps their memory alive

0:00 I've heard it said before, and I don't think I realized it until maybe, maybe this moment that. If you don't get to talk about the people, then they, they do disappear, right?

Chapter 2: The podcast introduction

0:19 We're here to help you laugh. Dad, podcast. Losing your dad sucks. But talking about it doesn't have to. We are not therapists. Professionally. We may like to think we are, but we are not.

0:27 We give really good advice though. Mm-hmm. Just not medically. Or therapeutically, although if you do feel better after it, that's okay.

Chapter 3: Disclaimer: we are definitely not therapists or doctors

0:35 You can still, you can still listen to us, but we will bill you for that. We're also not doctors.

0:39 That's true. We're definitely not doctors. I once was a doctor but then was immediately removed from doctor status.

0:46 You just had a lab coat on, like that's not a doctor that That was the problem. Enjoy the next episode of Dead Dads.

Chapter 4: Meet today’s guest: Bill Cooper

0:54 Scott, why don't you introduce our guests today?

0:56 Yes, it is my pleasure to introduce Bill Cooper. So I do know Bill personally as well.

1:04 Bill and I have done a variety of different things together. We are on a board together about sponsorship marketing. We run into each other at events. Our daughters, yours a little bit older than mine, both play hockey and so we see each other around the hockey rinks.

Chapter 5: Hockey dads and how Scott and Bill know each other

1:17 So Nice. We have managed to, we're hockey dads. That's uh, that's one of the clubs that we're in. Yeah. I can admit. Yes,

1:24 yes. You're a hockey dad. So we are, we're. We are known to each other before this event. Right. So Bill, why did you decide to do a podcast about your, your, your,

1:34 and do you feel like it was you that decided to do this podcast?

Chapter 6: Why Bill agreed to talk about his dad

1:38 Yeah, I mean, I think when I first heard you mention it or saw you mention it, I can't remember which. It occurred to me that, yeah, that's bang on. I mean,

1:47 it happened and I never talked about it, but at the same time, I never felt. Need to. Yeah.

1:55 Um, but I thought, oh, that's kind of a cool idea. And frankly, I, I hate to admit this, but I trust you, so that,

2:03 that's your first, that probably influenced why.

2:03 That's your first, that probably influenced why.

2:06 That's great. That's your first mistake, bill Billy. It was really just to get you here to record you saying that.

2:13 I only say it because I know your wife was also a proponent of this as well, and so I wondered how much she had as inspiration for this.

2:21 I think that's just the classic cliche. She was willing to volunteer me as opposed to me. But I think I might have raised my hand of my own volition had it not been, uh, let the record stay.

Chapter 7: Music Bill listens to after a tough day

2:30 Bill, we wanted to get to know you a a little bit more. So I'm curious if you've had a real hard day

2:35 at work, you've, you've made it home, you put on some music. What is, what is your typical go-to in terms of music?

2:43 Yeah.

2:44 Um. It's a little bit folk influenced. Very nice. Um, but I don't mind a guitar solo here and there, so maybe a little bit old, old Rock.

2:53 Is there something that you do? Is there a comfort watch? Something that you do if you're feeling stressed, what do you do to kind of relieve yourself of that feeling after maybe a hard day or a challenging meeting, that kind of stuff.

Chapter 8: Sudoku, books, and the power of a good nap

3:04 Do a Sudoku or read a book or something, which is going to be. It's gonna evolve into a nap within minutes, so.

3:12 Interesting. Yeah. I'm just getting into my napping phase. I'm 44 years old and it's just starting to get there.

3:18 Yeah. I think I started at about six.

3:22 Is there, everybody has this and I'm, and I'm, again, I know you a little bit, but I'm, I'm gonna challenge you. Is there a topic that you, without provocation at the drop of a hat,

Chapter 9: The niche topic Bill could talk about forever

3:33 you could talk about for 20 minutes with no prep work that everybody would probably think. Is the most boring thing in the world, but it would be super interesting to you professionally.

3:41 I got involved in a niche topic for quite a few years that no one else wanted to talk about, and they were okay to hear me talk about it. So that got to my head and, and that's sort of

3:51 commercial rights. So I, like professionally, I can talk, I can amble on about that for a long time. Um, and which seems to induce other naps around the table for other people.

Chapter 10: Bill’s “unqualified but willing” handyman philosophy

4:06 Um, curious, when you're around the house, what's your go-to fix it method? Like, how do you, how do you, uh, you know, are you a duct tape guy? Are you, uh, you know, I'm gonna put a, put a rope around it?

4:18 Or are you a guy who hires a professional every single time?

4:22 I think one of my. My dubious strengths. It's not like it's, it's still a jury's out whether it is a strength, but I'm willing to try stuff.

4:31 Right. So, um, I don't know that I can call myself a handyman, but I'm willing to be a handyman. Hmm.

4:37 Uh, and I joke and my kids joke and my wife, everybody around me jokes that I've fixed a lot of things in the house, but nothing is straight and nothing is quite right. Um, so fixed is in quotes. Yeah.

Chapter 11: Fixing things around the house… sort of

4:47 Fix is in quotes. So I. It's a step above duct tape, but it probably would've been better with duct tape. Right. Um, that's kind of where I live, I think.

4:55 And it depends on if you've had a nap. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

4:58 And so things that you fixed, how many of those things have had to have a professional come in and fix them afterwards?

5:03 There was a toilet ring. I did that, that, uh, you know, six months later there was a, you know, there was water on the dining room table.

5:13 Ah.

5:13 Um, but other than that, I think it's been. Relatively good, but you don't know, right? I mean, who knows? That could have been me, could have been the guy who owned it before me.

5:21 I'm not sure. It's kind of like your disclaimer off the top. You're not a doctor. I am, you know, I'm a handyman in my own house, but don't call me over.

Chapter 12: Introducing Bill’s dad: Frank Cooper

5:27 Um, so Bill, we would love to, to learn all about your, your, your dad. Um, what was his, what was his name? Uh, Frank. Frank Cooper? Yep.

5:36 Did he have a middle name? He had two actually. Ishly and T. Oh, okay.

5:41 How did he get those? Well, T is a family name. Okay. Uh, that was his mother's maiden name. And I'm

5:48 embarrassed and sorry to say I don't know the story behind Ishly. Hmm. Um, but it's an awesome name, isn't it? It's my big brother's middle name as well. And, uh,

5:59 our family has affectionately nicknamed my, uh, current vehicle as KB after Ishly. Did he grow up around here or?

Chapter 13: Moving from England to Canada

6:07 My family was straight off the boat from England. I, my sister and I were both born in Canada. Mm-hmm. But my two brothers were born in England, spent a few years in Ontario. Uh, when

6:16 he was, he was doctor, so they, when he was still a gp, he worked in Ontario, he came to Vancouver to specialize, went to the VGH and, uh, took a specialization in radiology, became a radiologist.

Chapter 14: Frank’s adventurous spirit and love of the outdoors

6:29 And, and what, what kind of a guy was he? How would you describe him?

6:33 He's like what you would expect of a, of a British guy with a, an incredibly adventurous spirit. Like

6:39 he loved camping and being outdoors, and we had a little hobby farm in the Fraser Valley, like he just loved adventure. The guy in the corner of the grammar school.

6:50 You know, who's reading the Tom Hardy equivalent books? Right? And who wants to Adventure? Nice.

6:55 And I, I think that's a big part of why they came to Canada and our life in Canada was peppered with, you know, camping trips that were epic and amazing, but. We were probably slightly under prepared for Charact.

7:09 That's the second time we've talked about that. Yeah. I like this new quote for you. Unqualified but willing. Yeah. That's the name. That's the name of the episode.

Chapter 15: Camping trips and family adventures

7:16 Yeah.

7:18 Um, and when you, when he was outdoors with you guys, was he like trying to teach you everything? Was he trying to like get you to experience it but also learn it so that you could pass it down?

7:31 I think that was there in him, but it was never. He never felt it and it was never obvious. Mm-hmm.

7:38 How do you think his friends would've described him? Do you think his friends saw him that way, or do you think they would have a slightly different version of, of what he was like?

7:47 I don't think they would describe him as the head honcho. Mm-hmm.

7:51 But, uh, he was fun. I mean, I think they probably, that would be probably the first word they would reference. He was, uh, he, he, he was kind of like, he always

8:01 looked like he was a move or a prank away from. Being sat in the corner by the teacher. Right. Was there ever a prank that sticks in your mind that he did?

Chapter 16: Childhood pranks and mischievous stories

8:10 Well, I mean, he's got some childhood pranks that, uh, kind of are in family lore. Like they,

8:18 as a family, as I am told, they rarely went on holiday, but they were on a rare holiday and, uh, his mother and father were sleeping in and he and his brother David. Came in, all excited 'cause they had shot a goose.

8:33 They thought they had, you know, been sort of adventurous hunters and they'd gone out with a bow and arrow and it was a domestic goose. And he brought a who, no, they brought a goose into the

8:42 kitchen at sort of seven o'clock in the morning. And so I think that, you know, there were a lot of stories like that, like stealing apples from the neighbor's orchard and that, that sort of thing.

8:51 That was kind of, that was his thing. But I would say not planned pranks. So he's mischievous. Yeah. Would

8:59 that be good word? And he's mischievous. Okay, so he's an adventurer? Yeah, unfortunately sometimes. Okay. Yeah,

9:06 he is obviously taken his family on a large gamble, I guess, and taken you across the ocean.

9:12 And then he's sort of settled here and he just made his piece with it and he did the best he could, but he wasn't necessarily the leader in every moment of every day.

9:21 I mean, it wasn't, you know, like nonstop. Luxury and all that sort of stuff. But we, we were very comfortable in the valley. We had a nice hobby.

9:30 We had a hobby farm by choice, not by necessity. Mm-hmm. I mean, that's fun, right? Mm-hmm. And nonstop luxury is not necessarily the best thing in the world. No. No.

Chapter 17: Frank’s love of classical music (played very loud)

9:39 Bill, what's, uh, what's one thing that you knew about him but nobody else really knew about him? Like, did he have a special skill that perhaps.

9:48 People didn't know about he loved music. Mm-hmm. Like, and he loved it at a bizarre volume. It was so loud. Like he would play classical music

9:59 at a vol, at an uncomfortable volume. Um, yeah. And so that was his, you asked me what I do after day's work. Like he, he would put on classical music and he couldn't play.

Chapter 18: The conductor wand Christmas gift

10:11 One year when I was quite young and I remember my mom giving it to him, but she gave him a conductor's wand for Christmas one year or something. He actually had books and like he was,

10:23 oh, he tried, he wasn't learning to be a conductor 'cause he, he wanted to be a conductor, but it was part of just, he just loved music so much that he Wow.

Chapter 19: Frank’s diagnosis with Lewy body dementia

10:30 Um, bill, can we talk, can we talk about, uh, how he, how he passed? Um, what was the circumstances around that?

10:38 How did he pass? I mean, he had a form of dementia, uh, Lewy body, um, which is, I, I mean, I'm not a specialist in this,

10:47 but I mean, all forms of dementia are very difficult and hard and seemingly unfair.

10:53 But this one in particular was. Sort of, there were, there were moments of,

10:58 um, what, what do you call it, like paranoia. Um, and I think that's not,

Chapter 20: Paranoia and the difficult reality of dementia

11:05 I don't know if it's the only dementia that features that, but Lew body is one that does. Uh, and sometimes the, the paranoia can come from real life things. So actually some of the

11:16 books that he read as he was entering dementia heavily influenced the themes of his paranoia.

11:26 Uh, and that was became a hardship for all of us, but most notably my mom, right? Because

11:32 she was taking care of him and there were moments where he would become quite violent,

11:40 um, more violent to the ether than anything else. But at times,

11:45 I think my mom probably felt threatened. So that was really, the last few years were tough and,

Chapter 21: Realizing the illness had been present for years

11:51 and it's a, the funny thing about dementia is now it's past, you can look back and realize, actually there were elements of it earlier than we realized.

12:00 Mm-hmm. My understanding is that Lew body is what Rob Williams had, um, when he, when he passed. The way it's been described is very, yeah. Very terrible. I'm sorry.

12:11 Yeah. For that. Yeah. So when you have dementia like that, you know, like how do you actually pass? Is it,

12:19 he had, um, uh, an acute episode mm-hmm. That required calling, um, the ambulance and the authorities.

Chapter 22: The final medical episode that led to his passing

12:28 They, my parents at the time. And my mother still lives on Salt Spring. So small community and,

12:35 um, you know. I guess you could say limited resources, although limited resources have never affected them in a negative way. They, um, they've always had a great life there. But in this moment,

12:46 um, you know, he had, he was having an episode and they needed to be called and that he was given some medication that night, a heavy dose because of how his behavior was and.

12:59 He never really recovered from that dose. Mm-hmm. But I don't think that's uncommon that, you know, he, he, he had to be sort of subdued and they, he did what

13:07 they could to subdue him and he never really, in many ways came back to life. Mm-hmm.

Chapter 23: Sitting beside his hospital bed

13:13 Uh, 'cause I remember, I mean, I got the call and I got to go over to Salt Spring and sit by his bed with my mom, but I never saw him again.

13:22 Really? Mm-hmm.

13:23 So you sort of didn't get a chance to say no goodbye. But he had been in, the dementia had been for a while, and so, yes. Yeah. You were aware that, yeah.

13:30 That time was more limited. Yeah. Yeah. What do you remember most about that day or that moment?

Chapter 24: Hoping for one last moment of lucidity

13:37 Just desperately hoping that there would be a moment of lucidity.

13:41 That's probably what I remember most. Right. And then I guess disappointment that there wasn't. But in the grand scheme of things, I, like you say,

13:49 Scott, I mean I knew and because we were are in North Van and they were in Salt Spring, we did see them, you know, fairly frequently. So I didn't feel Deprived in that sense.

14:02 But you know, that last moment you kind of have this, this Hollywood sense of how it's gonna go and mm-hmm. Didn't go that way.

Chapter 25: When the goodbye didn’t happen the Hollywood way

14:07 Right? Yeah. Eyes light up and then you communicate directly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

14:10 Um, so that was probably what I remember most, but I, but the way it worked is that, you know, it was clear that this was dire and you know, very likely those last few days.

14:24 I had a work commitment and an an uncertainty around how long it would take,

14:29 and so I went back to the mainland and was told of his passing while at this work thing,

14:36 which that sounds like something you would regret. Um, and maybe on some level I do, but we had some time in the palliative care as a family that was, you know.

Chapter 26: Celebrating his birthday in palliative care

14:50 Sounds awful to say fun, but it was, it was fun. We doesn't sound awful at all. I've,

14:54 I've heard. Yeah. Yeah. We sat with him and, um, we, you know, it was his birthday actually, and so we kind of celebrated his birthday unbeknownst to him. And,

15:03 uh. We actually got a, a noise warning that we were having too much fun.

15:09 There was something to hang out on. Yeah. And my sister snuck a, a bottle of scotch in and, you know, those, like, it was, it was a,

15:16 I got to participate in that moment with my family, which was treasured or is treasure.

Chapter 27: The first days after he passed

15:23 So when he did pass, what were, what were the first few days after that? Like for you?

15:29 Were you in charge of the process?

15:31 'cause your mom was still around. Did you take on responsibility or No?

15:34 No. I, I'm like, I'm fortunate about so many things in my life, but one of them is that I

15:40 have a sibling on salt springing, uh, and he and his wife together with my mom, you know,

15:48 took. Most of the burden. And uh, we were lucky that all our kids were able to join.

15:54 Actually all the grandchildren were able to join. So that was fortuitous.

15:59 I think it's, I mean there's definitely, there's different scenarios, right? Either you're given the responsibility or you don't have to take the responsibility. Yeah. But sometimes I wonder about, um, not having something to do can also be difficult.

Chapter 28: When siblings take on different responsibilities

16:11 Yeah. 'cause you wanna contribute. Did you feel a sense of like. What should I do? I mean, it was,

16:17 you're grateful to your brother for taking this on. So what, what is the task? Or was it sort of, you know, the gratitude for them and just being there and supporting them?

16:26 These are a lot of questions, which is, uh, why I signed on to do this because I've never asked myself these questions and, um, it sounds very,

16:35 uh, superficial and, and trite for me to say now, but I was, you know, which I was busy. At work. Mm-hmm.

Chapter 29: Staying busy with work during grief

16:43 And I, I had that going on. So I think that that is, that is that cliche, but to, to have something to keep you busy mm-hmm.

16:53 Is important. And I, I don't think I did that strategically or knowingly, but I think I was probably channeling myself into work. Uh, and it just by serendipity, I guess the thing that I went back to the mainland for was really big for our company.

17:11 We were bidding to become the sponsorship agency for Whistler Blackcomb. Mm.

17:15 And we were having a nice lunch with Whistler, the sort of the senior execs of Whistler up, up there. Mm-hmm. And that's when I got the call to say that he had passed. Um,

Chapter 30: Getting the call while at an important meeting

17:26 and did you go back to the table and say, my dad just died?

17:30 Um, my partner, my business partner at the time, she knew what was going on. So. She, I think when I got the phone call, she intrinsically knew. I didn't have to say.

17:40 Mm-hmm. Um, but I, I managed to sort of get through the rest of the day and, and stay, stay mentally busy.

17:48 Mm-hmm.

17:49 Um, and then I, so that. You know, those, those, I don't know if those are deflections from the question, but I, I think in retrospect that is, that is how I stayed mentally and emotionally busy.

Chapter 31: Planning a family ceremony

18:01 And then I think the other parts are that we had a ceremony within, I think it was a bus. It was, it ended up being family day weekend that we had the ceremony. So he, oh,

18:10 February.

18:11 So he, he passed, you know, days before. And that was again, serendipity 'cause it allowed us to bring everybody together. And so, you know, planning.

18:20 To have everybody together, whether it was booking some rooms or you know, ordering a charcuterie board or whatever there were. Mm. There were little minor tasks and there was the company of family.

Chapter 32: How small tasks help during grief

18:30 Mm-hmm. All those things I think help mitigate.

Chapter 33: How the grandkids processed the loss

18:35 Yeah. How were your kids throughout everything? Uh, you mentioned you've got kids and were they close to grandpa?

18:41 My wife and I, uh, lived overseas for a lot of years and had two kids overseas and then two,

18:47 when we came back here to Canada. And one of the mo strongest motivations to come home was to spend

18:54 time with grandparents. Mm-hmm. And so the kids all got to spend time with them. I, I don't know, without asking my kids and without being in the room how much it affected them.

19:04 I don't recall it being like a dark day of tears and, you know, like, you know, super expressive emotions.

19:13 Mm-hmm. But they were, they were embraced by family. Right. So the, the extroverted emotion was mi mitigated by the company of family.

19:24 I'm interested in it a little bit. I mean, your kids are older as well too, about, you know, it's your process 'cause it's your dad and it's your family.

Chapter 34: Helping kids remember their grandfather

19:31 Yeah. And then, but it's their grandpa or it's their, you know, relative how much engagement you, you offer to your kids, I think is sometimes fascinating. But I'm also wondering, so, um. He's passed. And then do you feel a sense of, of responsibility or do you feel a sense of ownership about keeping his memory in them?

19:52 Do you think they have inherited that or is there any sort of sense of how we continually know him now that he's gone away?

Chapter 35: Family meals and traditions that keep memories alive

20:00 I mean, I, and I'm gonna sound like a TV ad here or what, I forget which brand it is that always depicts family meals, but it, it's family meals.

20:09 Mm-hmm.

20:10 Um, that's a tradition that was in Laurel's family and, and you know, super strong in my family and I, I'm not, I don't know that my dad was the chief architect of that in my family,

20:20 but it, it's, it, it sort of mimics what you imagine of a proper English family.

20:25 Like you, you respect, you respect the home, you respect the traditions of the home and you Sunday roast. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

20:33 Absolutely. New York Yorkers. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. All of those things. And I, and. That means that we talk, we, not only do we eat at the table, but we talk. Right. And because we are at the table and we talk, we do tell stories of my mom and dad.

20:46 Right. Not because we plan to, but because that's what family time is.

20:52 Is there a story that you, your kids would say, you maybe have told just one time too many? Is there a story that gets repeated? Maybe a little bit?

Chapter 36: The famous camping story

20:59 Um, one of the ones that gets the, the most gaz is that he, you know, by the time we. I was old enough to remember we were settled in the valley.

21:09 Again, we were quite a, you know, a fairly privileged family 'cause he was a doctor and, um, and, uh, so we were fairly well to do and we went on these camping trips, but he was not, you know,

21:19 like every, a lot of people that grew up in England wartime, he doesn't, he didn't flaunt. I mm-hmm.

21:27 And so he did things on the relative cheap.

21:30 And so when we packed to go camping, he used what was around the house, right? Yeah. And so,

21:35 um, he, uh, like many of us in the family had some nasal nasal congestion problems, so he always had bottles of ravin around. And, uh, in this case he had put,

21:46 uh, the dish soap in the Trovan bottle. Oh no. And he give it the quick wipe like this.

21:53 Yeah. And he hadn't labeled it. So there was a scene of my dad, um, sort of breathe, you know, breathing bubbles out of his nose after having applied a healthy dose of dish soap up his nose.

22:06 Amazing.

22:07 So that one gets told a fair, fair, fair. Few times. Yeah. Were there any. Traits that maybe you picked up after he passed?

Chapter 37: The traits Bill inherited from his dad

22:14 Is there anything that you think you've inherited from him? Frighteningly. So my wife and my kids make fun of me for it. Mm-hmm.

22:21 And I, and in, in their company, I defend safe self and say, no, that's not true. But I know it's absolutely true. Like I'm, I don't know that I'm a carbon copy of my dad,

22:30 but I, I love puttering around the garden and I'm terrible at it.

22:36 Jack of all trades, master of none type thing. That's that. I share that with him. I think I have a lot of his traits, which is weird. I, when when you grow up in that environment, you think, oh, I'm never gonna be like that. I'm gonna do, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that. But in the end, I'm, uh, I'm just a dreamer.

22:53 I'm a guy that reads adventure books and adventures a little, but isn't really a leader in the class. Just, you know, I, it's, it's more that you have that sentimental attachment to adventure. Yeah.

Chapter 38: When you start laughing like your father

23:05 I mentioned this to Roger where, um, my laugh changed. Um, I suddenly developed his, his laugh.

23:13 Oh, really? Which feels odd to me to say that because again, it's supposed to be something organic. Yeah.

23:18 And yet I suddenly started laughing like him, and it's a weird, it's a, it's a trait that I didn't recognize that was his, and then I did it and I was like,

23:26 well, I know who did that. So I, there's these things sometimes I think that they just come at you sideways and you're like, oh. Why didn't I start doing that? Oh, this is a thing.

23:34 One of the other ones we laugh at a bit, which, uh, I don't know how much I do it. You don't know The other people at the table know, but myself and my oldest daughter, we are, we've been known to make a humming type noise while you're eating. Oh. Which my dad did with gusto.

23:52 Oh, wow. And does the hum, does the hum change depending on if you like what you're eating or not like is it like a mood?

23:58 I think, well, I think it comes on out of. I'm guessing it comes out out of pleasure. Like you're enjoying being at the table and eating and just Yeah.

24:10 Love that. Yeah, love that. I like to think of your dad humming maybe in, uh, some of those classical songs that he likes. Yeah, yeah. In the back of his mind.

Chapter 39: Why Bill never talked much about his grief

24:19 I heard you say earlier that you, you know, you, you haven't really talked about this a lot, and, um, I'm curious why, why, why do you think that is?

24:28 I don't feel that I have.

24:31 Suffered tremendously, nor have I craved some help with navigating that. Hmm. And

24:38 I don't know if that means that I'm. Being naive and blind to the fact or

24:44 whether I have good natural sort of mitigation techniques that I'm, without knowing it, staying busy or doing things that are allowing me to manage.

24:54 I'm not sure. And, and in saying that, I feel like I feel a sense of guilt. I'm

24:59 like, geez, am I a bad, am I a bad person? But I, but maybe that's part of what

Chapter 40: Feeling guilty for not grieving “the right way”

25:05 Frank Kelp. Teach me, right? I mean, he, he, uh, just, he just got on with life. I see my kids now, they have challenges at school and with sports and things like that, and they, they're expressive in the moment, but they don't seem to carry it for a long time.

25:25 Maybe that's something that my dad and others from that generation, you know, what they've given us is that's, that resilience is. Is a strong trait right?

25:37 Performative guilt is a, is a funny one, isn't it? This idea of like, especially the question sometimes feels like it's leading. Like, do you feel guilty?

25:45 And then the answer is no. No. Like, you should feel guilty. Yeah. And I,

25:50 I, I mean the, yeah. I think that is a very real challenge about this because,

25:57 um, there are some. Hollywood esque, pre subscribed notions of what grief looks like. Yeah. And what you should do when you're being presented with this scenario.

Chapter 41: Why grief doesn’t follow a rulebook

26:07 And yet I think what I know and Roger and I have spoken about and so far everybody, is that there's literally no set of rules that you have to follow. Yeah. You,

26:16 you could. Almost easily pass the milestone of putting your father to rest and moving on to your life. And, and that may be your path and it may just come up in, you know, odd moments.

26:26 Yep. But I, I do think that the question of. Should I feel more guilty or why don't I

26:33 feel more guilty is an interesting one to explore for me anyway, because I think that sometimes develops more into a question about who I am as a person. It becomes more of a, a discussion about what I feel about anything.

26:46 So that question I think is fascinating. Just asking myself should I feel more guilty? Yeah. Because it's maybe should I feel more guilty about a job that I didn't do well at? Or if I, it becomes kind of a character.

26:57 Yeah. Uh, discussion for me sometimes. 9.9 times outta 10, if not a hundred times. Or I guess it would be 10 times.

Chapter 42: Living in a way that would make your dad proud

27:04 Math. Math. So much math. Math.

27:07 Yeah. Um, you know, the, the parent who you lose would want you to succeed in life and, and do all the good things and not be. You know, succumb to grief or, you know,

27:21 emotional obstacles, et cetera, that impede you. So the fact that I haven't, perhaps I'm, I'm, I'm living my best, frank, even though I haven't felt a huge amount of, um, you know, the, what's perceived or what's put out there as the, the, the, the, the grief that should follow.

27:40 On multiple occasions in the last year is when we are over on Salt Spring, or when one of my older kids comes a day or two later or what have you. We

27:49 hear them and their cousins describe, oh, I stopped to see Frank on the way back from Fulford Ferry. So they stop at its headstone. See, that makes me cry.

Chapter 43: Watching the next generation remember Frank

28:02 So what more can you ask for? Did his passing or does it in the, in the current sense,

28:08 make you feel anything about your own mortality? There's sometimes this occurred to me, which is, you know, when my father passed, then this idea of it now swings to me. Did

28:17 it make you think about that or about your sense of what time you have on this earth?

Chapter 44: How losing a parent changes your perspective

28:24 I would say I've had, I don't know if it was a. Midlife or a late life crisis or whatever it was. But I, I lost my job, uh, unexpectedly through someone else's decision,

28:38 uh, a few years ago. And through that process, and maybe in retrospect, a little bit of dad passing and seeing my mom at times struggle a bit,

28:47 I've had kind of a change of heart about, this is not about me, it's about them. Mm-hmm.

28:53 Right, and so you, you kind of change gears and you're less preoccupied with what you're doing and

28:58 more preoccupied with what's the cool stuff my kids are doing, right? Yeah. You, you, you, you change gears and, and you, you are really contented and happy to watch them progress.

Chapter 45: Advice for someone who just lost their dad

29:13 Well, bill, we really, really enjoyed meeting you and learning more about Frank.

29:18 And, uh, before we go, I'm curious if you could give one piece of advice to any guy out there who just lost their dad. What, what would that be?

29:27 You, you probably have embraced either knowingly or unknowingly a family tradition. Keep embracing

29:35 it, keep carrying it forward, um, because that. That will be a huge resource for you, your, your stability, your pride, and what they built and you are now building and how that passes on down.

29:48 And, and ultimately, I, I never asked my kids to visit his headstone, but I have a nephew who goes and visits with a, with a bottle of scotch.

Chapter 46: A nephew visiting Frank’s grave with a bottle of scotch

29:57 Oh, nice. Love it. That's pretty nice. I can't afford the scotch. So

Chapter 47: What Bill misses most about his dad

30:05 is there a trait of his that you miss the most? Out of, out of all of the great things that he did, is there one thing that sort of sticks with you about who he was that you miss?

30:14 I think it's just presence, not a trait. Mm-hmm.

30:18 Right. When we, my sister and brother and I that are still on the West coast,

30:23 we will go fishing or do things that Frank would've done and just not having them there. That's probably what you miss the most. Classical music blaring. That'd be, that'd be kind of nice.

30:35 Not because I want it all the time, but it would be a nice. Recurrence. Right?

30:40 So maybe that's a trait you miss. So there's things like that. My daughter and I hum. Well we eat, so we got that ourselves. Anyway,

30:49 bill, thank you. Thanks for coming in. Thanks for agreeing to do it. Thanks for being intentional about it and,

30:57 and I think I get the sense from our conversations like. There is a sense of you trying to do the right thing, trying to think about the right thing, but it, I think being curious and interesting is great.

Chapter 48: Final reflections on remembering our parents

31:10 I know it's helpful for me, but I hope it was helpful for you. And so thank you. Thank you so much for coming. Yeah, thank you.

31:14 Yeah, no, it was, it was, it was weird word to say, but it was fun. I appreciate it. It was good. Good.

31:20 There are no good words for a dead Dad's podcast. Yeah. We can't figure one. Yeah. So fun. We, we haven't landed on it yet, is fine. Yeah.

31:27 Yeah. No, I enjoyed it and it's, it's cool you get to talk about these things, right? And, uh. I've heard it said before, and I don't think I realized it until maybe, maybe this moment,

31:36 that if you don't get to talk about the people, then they, they do disappear, right?

31:42 So better to talk about them after, you know, than not, right? You don't want to keep that bottled up 'cause then the next generation won't recall.

31:52 But a good way to, good way to wrap up here. Um. Thanks so much, uh, for all you guys out there. Another episode, the Dead Dads podcast is in the, can I need you to do

Chapter 49: How you can support the podcast

32:01 us a huge favor and like, and subscribe, uh, the podcast wherever you're listening or watching.

32:06 Actually, something really, really cool that we would love you to do is, is leave a comment on maybe a piece of advice you have for someone out there who's lost their

32:14 father. I think that could be hugely valuable to our community. Um, Scott Ron to another one.

32:20 Absolutely right. We're onto another one. If you didn't like the podcast, leave a comment and said that you liked the podcast too, because that helps as well.