It’s Okay Not to Be Strong After Your Dad Dies

This is the word-for-word transcript of the Dead Dads Podcast episode featuring Kevin Barrett, organized by the chapters provided.

Chapter 1: Breaking the Stigma: It's Okay Not to Be Strong

0:00 And I still hear from some people this old way of thinking about like, you know, you know, men should kind of suppress their problems and be strong and things like that. And you know, if one thing I one advice I give to people that go through this is like it's okay not to be strong. I've not been strong many times through this and and that's okay too, right? Sad,

Chapter 2: Introducing the Hosts and Their Unique Approach

0:21 but we're here to help you laugh. It's [singing and music] the dad.

0:28 Losing your dad sucks, but talking about it [music] doesn't have to.

0:30 We are not therapists professionally. We may like to think we are, but we are not. We give really good advice though,

0:37 just not medically or therapeutically.

0:40 Although, if you do feel better after it, that's okay. You can still you can still listen to us,

0:44 but we will bill you for that. We're also not doctors. That's true. We're definitely not doctors. I once was a doctor, but then was immediately removed from doctor status.

0:54 You just had a lab coat on. Like, that's not a doctor.

0:57 That That was the problem. Enjoy the next episode of Dead Dads.

Chapter 3: Welcoming Kevin Barrett: A Personal Connection

1:02 [laughter]

1:03 Um, Scott, we have another guest today. I was wondering if you can introduce them.

1:07 We absolutely can. Uh, Kevin, Kevin Barrett officially to friends and family, but Kevin to us today, thank you so much for coming here. Uh, I know Kevin a little bit. Kevin and I have shared friends. But, uh, also when my father passed, Kevin and I exchanged what I think is now maybe the universal,

1:26 which is his digital. I can't unlock his phone. [laughter] Oh, yeah. Right. Yeah. And we had a little debate. About that part.

1:33 Yeah. We can't How do I unlock this guy's phone? I'm still working on it. I know. Yeah. [laughter] Still working.

1:38 You know, if the FBI can't figure it out, I'm pretty sure you guys thought of when I was like, I have faith in you, but not [clears throat] that much faith.

1:46 [laughter]

1:46 That's so funny.

1:46 Um Kev, thanks so much for joining us today. I really appreciate it. Um before we get started, I'd love to know why did you decide to do this podcast? This is not this is not a regular ask, right?

Chapter 4: Kevin's Journey: Finding Therapy Through Friends

1:56 Yeah. you know um when I saw Scott's I think it was on LinkedIn you had written something about this on LinkedIn and you know since this has h since this happened to me talking about it with my friends has been the best kind of therapy for me if I struggle to make this work through therapists as opposed to like having like a couple really close friends just like spend time with me and just like let me say what's on my mind or what I'm thinking about and then I so I saw that and I reached out and said hey like I'd be interested and doing this because it's good for me and good for some. And I immediately was like, why did I why am I doing this?

2:31 Like I don't [laughter] I kind of felt like a little weird like I'll talk about my dad in front of like who knows how many people are going to listen, right? Yeah. And um but I don't know. I think there's something here that you guys have touched on that I think is really important and I still hear from some people this old way of thinking about like you know you know men should kind of suppress their problems and be strong and things like that and you know if one thing I one advice I give to people that go through this is like it's okay not to be strong I've not been strong many times through this and and that's okay too right and so that's kind of the I think the vulnerability of it I think is probably what draws me to it the most.

3:12 So the weirdest thing I mean especially as the hosts is people don't know quite what to say when you launch a podcast. They're like, "Oh, that's great." But I mean, I'm sorry for your loss. But I mean, also good news. And so and I'm like, "Yeah, I'm so excited, but I'm also not that excited."

3:27 This is a good what a good thing to happen.

3:28 What a good thing. [laughter] Yeah. It's a weird emotion to have to be like, "Yes, I'll talk, but I'm also aware of the topic." So,

3:34 but it's like, you know, the your the grief is like trying to figure out where to put like all that all that love. And sometimes that love is like funny, too. You know what I mean? It's like the jokes and the stories that that come along with it. And and uh I can even just tell by the vibe you guys have here that that's going to be a big part of this conversation, too. And I think that's important as well. So,

3:54 well, I do know you a little, but I'd like for everybody else to be able to get to know you a little bit as well. So, we have just a couple questions just to get to know you a little bit a little bit deeper. Um, sure.

Chapter 5: Coping Mechanisms: Music and TV Shows

4:03 Is there an I is there a TV show or an album, something that you that you use to help you with your grief that you listen to? Was it music or did you go back to like a favorite movie? What what sort of music or TV helped you?

4:17 Um, so music. So my my mother passed like uh four years before my dad did and we were listening to uh Perfect by Ed Sharon and Beyonce. It was just my mom in the room and she was very sick and she hadn't been really lucid for a few days and and the moment she passed we were listening to that song and and I remember for like three days straight I just listen to it on repeat, right? And then uh so when my dad died I did kind of the same thing. Uh and then I just kind of evolved into like I was like looking for like morose sad music.

4:53 Do you have a comfort TV show that you love to watch that you've maybe seen more than twice? Oh, I mean my friends will tell you that I watch a lot of TV and [laughter] I I just It's an intervention. They're here today.

5:05 Exactly. Just rewatched all of Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad. I mean, classic. Yeah. Are you watching Plurbus? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm watching right up to right up to speed. I love Ray Seahhorn.

5:18 And uh and you there's a bunch of like parallels to Breaking Bad and Better Call Saw, which you know, because I just watched it, I'm like noticing like similar buildings and things like that in there. So, oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm a nerd when it comes to that stuff.

5:31 So, so speaking of nerd, is there a topic that you could talk about that the rest of the world would find insanely boring, but you could talk about it for hours?

Chapter 6: Reflecting on the Universe and Grief

5:40 Probably the we are in Vancouver. Vancouver is in Canada's on Earth. Earth is in the solar system pulling back. Where is the solar system? Where's the solar system in the Milky Way? Where's the Milky Way? And then I I think about that all the time like and and I and then where does like death figure into all that? [laughter] Yeah. I mean interstellar was probably the best thing for my brain to start to wrap my head around some of that stuff and put things into certain places.

6:10 Totally. And the science of interstellar which is like a book that was written about it is like like really fascinating too. But uh yeah, I spend a lot of time about that. And I think that that's also important because it's like I've since my dad my dad passed, I've been able to like let go of a lot of things to be like and not in like a like a weird dark way, but like we're all going to die. We're all going to be dead soon in some cases.

6:32 So do I give a crap that this guy cut me off or that I think this person's being rude to me or mean to me or I hate this boss or whatever, you know? It's like it's nice to think about the universe being a larger place. It makes it feel like Yeah. It takes you out of the situation, I guess, right?

6:48 Yeah. Like even after like both my parents passed, I remember just like sitting on the highway like looking around at all the people. I'm like, they have no idea. I know this is what happened to me is so little in the grand scheme of things. Yeah. And it's okay for me to think like that and be upset at the same time because I can't expect everybody to be like in line with that. So

7:09 I hear you. I I get I don't know if you watch Dr. Brian Cox. Do you know who he is? Uh he is the BBC. Yeah, he is like uh for me just I could sit and watch him for hours. He talks about just well just about science basically. But the universe Oh, it's it's like an hour long for me. Every time I sit down and watch a YouTube clip for him, I get sucked in.

7:28 No, you got to send me some some links [laughter] after this. I actually agree. You probably shouldn't actually. Yeah, considering already we're on a TV intervention for you. Might not be the best idea.

Chapter 7: Remembering Roe Barrett: A Father's Legacy

7:38 Um Kevin, let's uh let's let's talk about your dad if you're okay with that. Sure. Um, what was his name?

7:44 His uh birth name was uh Frederick Row Barrett. Uh, he went by Freddy when he was young and at uh some point he decided that Ro would be what he wanted to be known by. And so his um so the world knows him as Ro Barrett. H there might have there might be some 80s something year olds in eastern townships of Toronto [laughter] that know him as Freddy Barrett, but uh there's they're they're they're fading away fast too.

8:13 Totally. Where does that come from? Where's Ro? Is that a is that a parent grand?

8:16 Yeah, it's like a you know it's a it's it's somewhere in my lineage. I I'm not exactly sure. We're Barretts and my mom said we were very good at like understanding like [laughter] the generations that aren't right in front of you. Uh so but I'm not sure where he got the name uh Row from but it but it was the 80s uh 70s 80s you know it was a it was a lot of mustaches and long hair and Ro was kind of like it was kind of like a I know I look back and some of those photos of like my dad's like he's like a man's man back then you know what I mean and I'm curious you know uh you mentioned he grew up in Toronto or or born in Toronto.

9:03 Yeah. So my uh my my uh dad was born and raised in the I call them Eastern Townships but because it's just east of Toronto. It's called Durham region. Okay. Oh yeah. So Ajax Pickering Ashwa those areas like I was born in Ashawa. My dad was like raised in Pickering Ajax area and uh I went to you know we eventually moved like kind of north of Toronto which was easier for commuting wise for my dad for work. I was raised in a place called New Market. But as you know, over time, my my parents split up. Me and all my brothers, we kind of moved away. And as soon as he could, he moved like right back to kind of where uh he grew up. Um I have I have a late sister as well. And so he where she was buried, my dad was like less than a kilometer from there because like right up until she died when she was three. So right up until she died, my dad was very much involved with like you know the

9:45 How old were you? So what's the age? I was one. I don't remember her at all, but it was very much like it definitely like I see it today in kind of the way I am and the way I was raised and stuff because my, you know, when you're one years old, your parents are in uh PTSD mode, undiagnosed, untreated, just trying to plow through it as best as possible. So as much as I don't remember her, it's very much part of my life like and who I am that that happened to because they were dealing with it at the time when they were raising you.

10:16 And how were they? She was three. She got she got menitis. She was they saw symptoms of menitis while she was in daycare and uh they took her right away to get a spinal tap. They realized she had menitis and then they closed the daycare down immediately. And because they did that like nobody else died and but she did. So, my parents basically just like locked themselves in a bedroom for like three weeks and I was just kind of left alone with aunts and grandparents trying to, you know, just like plow through it. Like I said,

10:44 I think about that. I know you have kids. I do too. Like it's a that's a tough thing to think about. Having kids is the best thing. Like um not always every day, every minute of the day, but honestly overall the best thing. I know. Yeah. Are you listening? Yeah. But the uh the emotion that it weighs upon you, the the feeling of protectiveness and the you know risk and involved it does it does add to the level of complexity. I couldn't I couldn't imagine and you know and I didn't give them enough I'm a kid like I don't I don't beat myself up over it but I did not think enough about that growing up about how deeply that affected them. It's just like it just it just like I just spoke about it so nonchalantly to people. I don't care. You know, this happened and blah blah blah. But, you know, the looking back on it, it just affected everything, right? Now that I know what that feeling could be like. I just look at all the ways I was interacting with my parents when I was younger and stuff and be like, "Yeah."

11:35 Can you uh can you describe Ro for us? Like what kind of a dad was he? He was the most outgoing, talkative, and talk talkative is like the the big one. like he [laughter] he talked and like he was like the he was the national sales manager of this office furniture company in Toronto, the very first one they ever had and he was really responsible for taking all these kind of like rogue distributors around the country and kind of consolidating them under this kind of umbrella of like cohesiveness. And he just loved making speeches and you know right up because he passed very suddenly. So like right up until he passed it was like people were coming up to me like he he called me and I talked to him for like two hours last week. I must have heard that like 20 times cuz he just he would get you on the phone and just not stop talking. So he was like that his whole life. His whole life right up until the end. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

12:26 How do you think his friends would have described him different than that? Like did they do you think they knew him differently? Cuz the reason I ask is sometimes we find these things out after they pass. Somebody comes up and describes your parent to you and you think, "Oh, that's a different way than I remember."

12:39 My dad was like the same with me and my brothers right up until the end as he was with everybody in his life. Yeah. He was that's just who he was. He just was who he was and everybody knew him like that. So gregarious like yeah this is too much sometimes. Sometimes [laughter] I was just like dad it sounds like or I heard this story like thousand times. Dad you got to like stop or I don't know I don't know that person that you're referring to like five times.

13:01 What was one of his classic stories that he just always told? He every time he saw a flock of birds in the sky in a Vshape, he referred to a documentary he saw about a guy from Ajax Ashawa who flew this glider plane in in a manner to attract other birds to so the glider plane would be like the top of the V and these birds would follow him and he would lead them to migrate south. It's as boring as it sounds. Who told that? [laughter]

13:34 How does it go? So, you're in you're just walking around and there's some birds. Oh, it reminds me. [clears throat] Never tell you about that. You know that that documentary about that [laughter] so many times. Let me Let me get Is it about a glider dad? No. Yeah. Keep going. And then then he knew that I knew the story and he'd be Hey, look. He's a I always think about that glider guy. [laughter] Oh my god.

13:56 Was there something about him that maybe people didn't know that that you knew? Because you say he's gregarious, so he's probably got a real outward personality, but there was there anything about him that was unique? We're not talking We're not talking skeletons, but you know, like a part of his personality that he kept maybe more for his family.

Chapter 8: The Emotional Side of Roe Barrett

14:11 There was certain things that would make him well up and get upset. I mean, like emotional about like like in a nice way. Just like these like nice stories and things like that and and we would uh and I would see that side of him and I just don't know how much other people saw of that. like he definitely cared a lot, you know, he really cared a lot and he really tried to like keep in touch with a lot of people and he definitely like spoke more than he listened.

14:37 My dad didn't cry a lot, but he would cry at Selene Deion songs. I bet my dad did that, too. He would get real emotional and he'd be like, "She just has such a good voice." You could hear him just like get wiled up and it was such a like he doesn't cry hardly at all and then Selen Deion comes on the radio and you could see the tears just coming. think this is the this is what does it apparently.

14:56 He he would he was going on about how the movie Oppenheimer made him cry. Oh, really? And I I didn't watch that movie close enough to really understand why that would be like I mean it's a sad topic, but yeah. Yes. I of course, but I don't know if he was crying for the Japanese or crying for Oppenheimer. I don't [laughter] I I can't really be some nuance. I never really got to the bottom of it. [laughter]

15:17 My dad would cry at bag pipes. But the funny part was that we would only hear bag pipes at a at a parade. So we would only see him crying at parades. So there was a period of time where we didn't clue in that he was crying at the bag pipes. We we thought he was crying about the parade. And we just for for a while thought that dad had to avoid parades.

15:37 My dad being Scottish as well, that was what we played when he passed. Amazing. So he passed, he had made and so we were all in this room together and we played the bag pipes. So now Yeah. Like I can't hear the bag pipes. I have sympathy for you to listen cuz if I hear those bag pipes again, I'm right back in that room.

15:52 I I I love that about made. I've heard a lot of stories about how people just were able to set up these like perfect kind of scenarios with like music and chanting and stuff and in other scenarios it was just like like that's the I think that's beautiful that you guys were able to do that. My my dad did mate as well and Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. And it was it was it was beautiful. It was beautiful. And and I think one of the best parts was that he got to schedule the date and the time and we got to coordinate all the right people to come and visit him before he left and he got to say all his goodbyes and it was it was just perfect.

16:28 When my dad passed, he was 81 and I was like I don't not looking forward to him being 90 like you know is what I used to think because then like because he would be stubborn if he got sick he wouldn't want to go into a home. I don't think he would have been strong enough to do maid frankly but that would have been the perfect thing for him is like you know the the part that I that I wish my dad would have seen is just all the people that came to his funeral like he was all the stories he told about all these people they're now all in the same room together and I think that would that could have been made for him you know some version of that right it's such a good learning and I it's so hard to take advantage of it but you see somebody passing and then somebody giving them all of this praise that they never thought and I think should we do that more now? I don't know. Do you do that more now? Do you now that you've seen the benefit of somebody passing and then the good things? Do you in your life reach out and say more positive things to people while you've still got them around?

17:22 I try I think below the surface I'm a fairly angry guy. Got it. Yeah. And I think, you know, I can I can blame a lot of like why how I was raised and things like that, you know, for the way I am or the way I but ultimately it's within my control. And I know that if I'm nicer to people, I feel better about that. And you know, we were just doing this uh exercise the other day. We're trying to pick up like a word for 2026. And it's and my word was others because I feel like if I can make others happy, I'll be happier as well.

17:53 I like that we got to know Ro. Yeah. I like the name Freddy Barrett. Actually, there's something that considering you talked about Better Call Saul and everything. I could feel like Freddy Barrett could be a character in there. [laughter] But yeah, I like this idea that he's a documentary watcher. I'm now going to be very fascinated by when I watch flying birds go by in a V. I look forward to leaning over to the person next to me. You know, there's we're hanging out. [laughter] There's a documentary apparently about that. People right up there. Yeah. Gregarious and salesman. uh outdoorsy kind of a a person that everybody got to know a little bit, but every once in a while he would uh he'd well up at uh surprising things like a movie about World War II. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. What kind of a grandpa was he?

Chapter 9: Roe Barrett as a Grandfather

18:37 Yeah, he was really great. when um when my son Walter was just a year old, we moved from Vancouver to Toronto and uh every Saturday he would come over to my house and we would uh take Walter out for a walk. He was just like, you know, in a in a stroller at that time. He was, you know, he's only six, seven, eight months old, something like that. But it would be like 6:00 in the morning and my wife was, you know, most nights was up a little bit with him and stuff. And so we would go and we get pancakes together. We just did that every Saturday for for years. And he just loved it. He was he just loved it so much. And when he died, he had uh

Chapter 10: Grandfather's Legacy and Memories

19:23 five grandkids and he really tried to do that as much as possible. He just wanted to be he wasn't the most he wasn't the most capable grandfather. [laughter] like we we definitely had to do the him like a couple times on some kids when he was around. But um he [laughter] well I'm thinking about one in particular, but anyways [snorts] he um he really just wanted to be there and be present and you know he was he happened to be here in town when like you know my son lost a tooth. He really loved it. He really loved he really loved the whole idea.

19:57 You mentioned to me something that he when we talked on the phone about this, you mentioned that he liked to leave something behind. [laughter]

Chapter 11: A Funny Nighttime Incident

20:06 When you're older, you get up a lot in the night and you have to use the restroom and do all these things along with all the burping and the farting and all that stuff. But and [clears throat] uh I think Walter was around. If he wasn't around, that would make it even weirder. But he just got up in the middle of the night and had a number two in the bathroom and didn't flush it cuz he didn't want to wake anybody up and then forgot it was there and um we found it perfect in the morning. Thanks, Grandpa. Funny. Uh c can we can we talk about how Ro passed away?

Chapter 12: The Passing of RO

20:37 He was very much about his health, you know. [snorts] Um but like I don't know how in like informed he was, you know, about the science of everything, but he thought he was doing all the right things, you know, like he saw his doctor He [snorts] thought he had like kind of brought his cholesterol down because of eating almonds. He walked like, you know, a lot. You know, he was like walking was like his big thing. He started skiing again like three years ago and did like a trip by himself to Big White. Like he was really on on top of his health or so it seemed after my dad retired. His dream was to be a golf marshal. And so that's what he did every summer. He was a golf marshal. And I don't know what a golf marshall is. They're the ones that drive around the course and tell you to hurry up. Oh, it's a great It's a sweet job and it's mostly retired people. Got it. Yeah. In my dad's case, he just walked around and told stories to people that didn't want to [laughter] hear. Even better. Yeah. And they would be like, "Ro, you're not you're supposed to tell them to hurry up."

21:31 Anyways, he um they uh he had missed a shift on uh on the previous Friday and then again on the Monday. And for whatever reason on the Tuesday, they just they decide to call us. And um you know it's like my dad uh called every Saturday, but if I missed the call, I sometimes wouldn't even know about it, right? And he's very much on top of my brothers and talking to them and stuff like that. So when you go like a few days without hearing from him, it's not a normal either or sometimes you he did try but you just didn't hear him. So um yeah, we get a call and uh my youngest brother, he texts us right away. He says, "Dad's missing."

Chapter 13: Discovering the Loss

22:11 He bolts over to his house, gets the property manager to open the door and they uh found him in the bathroom dead. And so uh when his computer didn't have a password on it and so we can what we can deduce is that uh some late sometime late in the evening uh Thursday before that or early Friday he had a heart attack in his sleep. he would have experienced some symptoms of that made his way into his bathroom and uh some of those symptoms you know happen you know like evacuating yourself and things like that. So those those were those were present and then he looked like he just tried to make get into the tub to wash himself off and closed his eyes and fell asleep and that was that. So, uh, we So, yeah, he we didn't find him for like he had been there for 4 days, which that's a that's a hard that's a really hard thing to know that that happened.

23:12 My poor brother had to find him like that, too. But, uh, when they did an autopsy, all of his arteries were completely clogged. And so, [snorts] you know, he told everybody about how healthy he was. and he did exhibit a lot of signs of like staying active and things like that, but what [snorts] was going on beneath the surface was so bad that this happened. And so we couldn't say goodbye either cuz cuz he had sat he had been there for so long that uh the coroners said you don't want to see him like that. So So we couldn't say goodbye even to see him.

23:53 It is a tough It is a tough process. A very tough that instant moment of Yeah. One day he's here, one day he's not, and you didn't have an opportunity to say goodbye. Yeah. It's only been six months and uh it feels like it's been six years. Like I can't believe it's only been six months. Surreal, isn't it? Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah. You think there's these moments where you kind of go in and out and you're like, it's yesterday. It's six years ago. I know. Yeah. and and it has not been and it has been a busy year in general for me and like work and family and stuff, but to sit here and think that it was less than six months ago. Yeah, it's a it's kind of it's still I still can't believe it.

24:35 So, you mentioned your brother found him like So, are you the one who had to do the kind of next steps? Did you have to be the one that kind of pulled

Chapter 14: Dealing with the Aftermath

24:44 themselves in and started figuring out what to do or was that your father or how did that work? Well, no. Jeff kind of removed himself from the situation right away and uh called the police, you know, just to because he didn't really know what to do. Not that he thought there was any foul play or anything, but like we got to like officialize all of this, right? And so, uh and then my other brother and his wife went over to see him right away cuz he's very upset. And then um I was on a plane uh by 4:00 that day. [snorts] So I I it was you know this all kind of by 6 a.m. here we'd realized what happened.

25:20 I didn't want the kids to see me too upset in that moment. So I just went over to my office which was empty at that time and I just kind of started to like make some arrangements and talk to some people. And then um I knew the way the flights were working out that if the kids came home and I wasn't there and Jillian told them, "Hey dad, he had to go because grandpa died." That that wouldn't be too super fair to them. So we pulled him out of school a little early, told them and then I left and then I went to Toronto and then uh I got in very late that night and then early the next

Chapter 15: Clearing Out and Moving On

25:51 morning [snorts] we were in his home with garbage bags and we just started we went we did a lot in that one day. We he had a smaller 550 foot place. He was not a material person. There wasn't a lot of like stuff really, but like you know just the fridge was full of food, you know, all that. So we just going through papers and photos and yeah, we we did most of the clearing out the 80% of it in that in that first day.

26:21 Actually, what made you go so fast? My brothers and I, we never really talked about like why we want to do something, but we were all just kind of on the same page. It's like, let's not waste time here. And I was, you know, and I also didn't want to be in Ontario forever either, right? I love Ontario, but uh, you know, I have work and family commitments and things like that. And I'm like, if we can wrap this all up in a week and then I can go home and I can kind of start my grieving process like with my wife and my kids and and do all that. Um, so yeah, we just kind of like and then when my mom when my mom passed years before, we didn't really want the too much grass to grow, you know, we just wanted to just move on as quickly as possible. And it was co that, you know, it was co times back then, too. But it was like we just wanted to move on as quickly as possible. Same with this. And uh, I'm glad we did it that way. You know, there's a lot of religions they bury their dead within like 24 hours in some cases. And I think that's I think that's very cool. And then we just and then we started the the legal side of it which was a huge learning

Chapter 16: The Legal Side of Loss

27:25 experience and and being a real estate agent I actually you know I I I preface this to my clients being like I am a real estate agent. I'm not your lawyer. I'm not these other things but here's my experience with how probate works and how you sell your home while probate is happening and who you talk to and and that you need to open this kind of bank account and all this stuff because I was the executive of the will. So that was like a massive learning experience that I I give to others, you know, frequently like I deal with a lot of, you know, estate sales and things like that. So, and it kind of has to start pretty fast, doesn't it? Like Well, I mean, probate takes forever in some jurisdictions, right? So, yeah. And just to get the process, just to have all the paperwork filed could take a couple of months and then you're sitting on that for like four to six months. And Yeah.

28:08 And you were dealing with like a funeral home and Yeah, we just went to like a local funeral home out in in Ashawa. had had plans been made in advance as far as No, we already grave sites were picked out already because my mom, my grandparents, my sister are all buried in this kind of same plot area. And then yeah, we chose this funeral home in Ashwa, which in hindsight was we did it for my aunt who doesn't she doesn't travel a lot and I mean like doesn't travel like from Ashawa to Toronto even really. Yeah. So we chose a funeral home in Ashwa kind of for her.

28:45 It is an incredible process and we've talked a little bit about this the challenge of it's almost seductive in a way taking on the responsibility because it's achievable and it's something that you can set your mind to and it's nice to have tasks. Yeah. And it's nice to put those tasks in front of you and say this is matters. This is what's necessary and if I can achieve these things then I've done something towards this process.

Chapter 17: Grief and Therapy

29:07 Yeah. Um my question to you is a bit of an open one which has has that is that still happening or have you come to a point where some of those tasks have been completed and then you're left with a bit more of an open period where now you are setting up your own processing for grief. Where do you feel like you sit inside of that process?

29:29 I don't know uh exactly. you know, I'm uh I can talk a lot about certain things that I couldn't talk about at first when it when it as it relates to him. Yeah. But as you can see, like when I talk about him as a grandfather or, you know, just like just how he loved us, those still make me like emotional, you know? Um and those are not those are just not things that come up in a lot of conversations when it about my dad. So like I yeah I'm in this kind of new phase of like like a lot of the grieving it's kind of happening internally and as much as my friends are there whether you know whenever I want them if I felt like that was useful I could I could definitely call on them but I I feel like I'm in this kind of like internal phase of processing it like when my my mom was sick for a long [snorts] time with Parkinson's disease when she passed it was a blessing like and it if anything it was two years too late um because she could have done what made when she was lucid, but we missed that window entirely. And so that was more like a it was like a sense of relief. Whereas, you know, like I like right now I'd be like on the phone with my dad this time of year trying to tell him like here's how you order stuff on Amazon for the kids for Christmas, [laughter] you know, and you know, then I'm not doing that. And and those are things that like you know if I just said to Jillian my wife every every day like the thing I'm thinking about that's making me sad about him she just you know it's not fair to her either and it's not helpful for me. So I'm just trying to like work through the so I think that's the phase I'm in. I think the probate and and executive type of work is very checklist oriented. Yeah. [snorts] And it's kind of like this like, yeah, you know what? I got to just get through this. And then actually once that was complete, now it's just like how do I just kind of live my life and and uh where do I put all this kind of like lovegrief that I'm carrying around?

31:33 I was going to say you you you mentioned a little while ago you have a lot of anger under the surface. Yeah. Has that come out yet in this scenario? No, never actually. If anything, I'm more uh relaxed about a lot of things in my life. Um with him gone, it's the weirdest feeling actually. Like I feel calmer, more relaxed, more just self assured is the word. Like I like let things go quicker because of this. It's a gift really in all this is that I guess and you could I could be angry, you know, and I could say that's why I'm angry about all that stuff, but if anything, it's made me a much different person in that sense. I have a lot I have a long way to go still with like how I communicate and and what I want to communicate and and in those moments, but like deeply I feel really good. my father passed away and he had um a few years before that he tried to commit suicide. Okay. And so he had he'd been found. He wasn't successful and so he'd he'd been alive for a few more years and then he basically had cancer and he died quite quickly. And when he passed I I felt a little bit like well he wanted this. So I felt a sense of like I shouldn't be worried about him right because he passed. And then I let that go for a little bit and then I started to realize how angry I was and I was yelling at my wife and there was a moment where I was just physically so angry with her and I was just livid and I she was sort of the her look at me that mirror look I was like that's what I am right now right and I I immediately realized that I was not okay and I had and I started you know going to therapy and then that was the upside for me which was this therapy has actually made me realize some things. Okay. But there is a a period where that anger can sometimes kind of be there and and float around and it is a a question that I have which is you know nobody else gets it. Nobody else knows like I was so angry no one else's dad you know died the way my dad did and no one else is dealing with this in my family and so I'd be angry at them. I would be really f furious with them for not having the same situation that I did. So um do you still go therapy?

33:50 Yeah. And I think that is an upside for me is therapy has become kind of a routine and there is a lot of stuff which ties to the death of my dad. But I think the therapy has been a bit of a throughput of me working things out. Yeah, me too. [snorts] Yeah. You still go to Yeah, I do. Well, you've been about a year now, you said. Yeah, it's been next week is going to be a year. Um, yeah. So, I see a counselor every two weeks. And I think the thing that's helped me the most is she's helped me realize that grief doesn't have a prescription. there's no specific way of grieving cuz I felt really guilty that I wasn't really feeling like I felt kind of numb and I felt guilty about that. I felt like I should be really because I was very upset leading up to him and made and and actually you know passing and uh and then as soon as it happened it was the opposite. I was very like not content but just there wasn't a lot coming out and I felt really guilty about that. I felt like I should I should be, you know, more emotional. And she she just helped me realize that that's that's that's the way you're grieving and there's no single way to do it.

34:54 I've tried the the therapy route a couple times like after my mom passed and after my dad passed and and just like crying the whole time and then then it's like if if I did at 10 in the morning, I'm like there's no way I'm working today. It's exhausting. [laughter] Yeah. And so I just stopped. And uh I think you know therapy's therapy is a gift. It's a privilege. I think it's everybody's road. Everybody's walking this road. Like Roger said, your your grief is your own process. But also I I heard you say that you're you're talking to a lot of your friends about this and that seems to be really helpful. And quite honestly, that is at least for me that is what a lot of my counseling is. It's just me talking and she'll prompt a few things and she never really gives me advice. She never really does anything that sort of I walk away with some tips, but she's just there as a, you know, sort of a a counselor. She counsels, she coun she helps me, you know, go through it all. And so I I would love to hear more about you talking with your friends and how beneficial that's been.

Chapter 18: Support from Friends

35:51 In my group of friends, um, several of us have lost a parent, you know, and and another one of my friends, he's also lost both of his parents up until now. So, you know, nobody nobody says the right thing or the wrong thing. They just kind of say what comes naturally out of them and and that's and that's good enough. But I do have a couple of friends that because, you know, uh they've lost their mother or they you lost both parents in some cases, they just kind of knew the exact thing to say or knew how to like check what how I was feeling or saying in that moment and say the right things kind of back to me. It's a bit of a dance that in if you haven't experienced grief, you don't really know how that is. And those were like I remember some of those conversations vividly. They were just like perfect. I went to Mexico very shortly after my dad died to my friend's place in Cabo. He was like, "Dude, just come down." He's like I avoided like committing to going down and then then my dad passed and we were we were together one week and he's like, "Just come." He's like, "We're leaving in three days. Just do it." And uh I was like, "Screw it. Let's go." I love where he is. great surfing down there and a couple of my friends were going and uh it was Father's Day and I had done this like little exercise this therapist told me to do uh in the morning um just like a journaling exercise and then my friend and I who were uh who has lost his mother we went it was surf was really big that day we weren't going to go out but we're like let's go down and watch and we were in this driving back they have this little shuttle bus that comes up and it was just beautiful we're going through this these Mexican valleys and he just was like you you know, just was saying like all the right things and just like saying how important I was to him and, you know, just he he needed me to know that that I was loved and it was really perfect. I I couldn't even I didn't even know what to say back. But that's kind of friends I have. They just they stepped up. Yeah. They're just really good at that kind of stuff. And and some of them, you know, like my one friend when I got back, he just wanted to sit on the on my my deck with me and just just talk. Like I could tell he was he could have stayed there for the whole night if I wanted him to. And he just like was just calm and just wanted to like hear everything and wanted to look for ways that he could support me or just listen or whatever. And that was really important, too.

38:21 I think your experience is really valid and unique. Yeah. Um, if there was a person that was listening to this that was trying to be there for somebody whose other person had passed, is there advice that you could give or what what do you think makes makes that work? What's a piece of advice I guess in terms of how you think that person could reach out?

38:43 I think it's like um first I would say if you're the person grieving give everybody a lot of rope you know like there's you know I I have heard some in some scenarios people like can you believe he said this like it's like come on like what are you gonna do you know and uh [snorts] you know make it personal personable make it like you know unique to to that person in the scenario you know, or if it's just listening, just do something, you know. Was there ever anything funny that anybody said that was so wrong that it became right? Somebody stepped up.

39:23 It's so funny that it was while it was it was a while afterwards and um and it was it was actually it hadn't really to do with my dad, but it was more to do with my mom. [snorts] And uh we were just at this party and uh somebody was making like a mama joke like just so dumb. and he was he was kind of drugging your blah blah blah and then he looks over at me and he goes yes [laughter] we still laugh about to this day I could not stop laughing I thought it was funnest too soon [laughter] the funniest thing and even since then we like you know we have a little group chat and me and my one friend who like both of our parents are dead are like you know we'll just say some dumb comeback like are you saying that because our parents are dead it's the ultimate it's the ultimate trump card right yeah it's the ultimate win yeah Everybody gets a kick out of it. So, yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of that. You got to you got to use those when you can. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

40:18 So, Kevin, we're uh we're just about ready to wrap up here. I'm curious um if you were to give one piece of advice to a guy out there whose [snorts] dad is either about to die or has just passed.

Chapter 19: Advice for the Grieving

40:28 What What would that be? Um don't be afraid to like tell somebody you need them. I made a point to like tell my friends. I said, "This is happening to me. [snorts] and uh and and I need your love and I need your support and they were all like of course you know and not only that they were like that's a good they were like they they kind of learned a lot from that and were like I didn't wasn't thinking about it in the grand scheme of things but they were like they learned a lot from that and that that's okay for them to do too you know [snorts] some people don't want that and that's okay you know but if you're like if you're really struggling just tell somebody that you need some support. You know what I mean? tell you you know when I say you know when I after it happened I like reached I say this is what's happening with me and d and those some of those moments I feel like am I but if you're like if you're really struggling just tell somebody that you need some support you know what I mean tell you know when I say you know when I after it happened I reached I say this is what's happening with me and d and those some of those moments I feel like am I I don't know am looking for too much uh what's the word I'm looking for? Attention to this, you know, like hey, come feel come feel sorry for me. And and I really try to make sure that it's not coming out like that. But it really is more like I need I need love and support. I need people to tell me it's going to be okay, you know, and I think that's okay. And I think if you can do that, if you if you be brave and vulnerable and tell somebody that that's how you're feeling, not as a means to like, you know, god forbid you're at this point where you're doing it to save your life. [snorts] Even way before that, I'm sad. I need to know. And and if you're and just any guy in general, just check in on people in general, even when it even when it doesn't when it doesn't matter because when it does matter, they'll remember that, you know, oh yeah, that person reached out just to check in on how I was doing a few months ago. That's probably somebody I can tell that I'm sad right now. Yeah. Wow. Well, Kevin, this has been really great. We truly appreciate all your vulnerability and we had some laughs. Um, wish we got a chance to meet Ro because he sounds incredible. Uh, thanks. Thanks for absolutely everything and it's going to be okay. Yeah, I know that. Yeah, it's going to be okay. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks, guys. I really appreciate it.

42:59 Awesome, Scott. So, we made it through another episode of Dead Dads. We did indeed. Yeah. Um, for all those out there,

Chapter 20: Conclusion and Podcast Wrap-Up

43:04 thanks so much for watching. Please leave us a review, subscribe, um, but also leave a comment because it helps the algorithm gods and gets the podcast into as many eyes and ears as as possible. Um, where can you find the podcast by the way? Uh, I've just been putting it up on lamposts. You know those like you pull you pull a tab. Is that Yeah, the QR codes are are huge. It was that the that was the plan. Also, YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, pretty much wherever you get your podcast these days. Catch you next time. Catch you next time.

43:38 [music]

43:38 It's a weird, [singing] sad, funny, but we're here to help [music] you laugh. It's the Dead Dad's podcast.